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The Range
Rifle & Shotgun Discussion
.300 Blackout Questions.
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<blockquote data-quote="aestus" data-source="post: 1999775" data-attributes="member: 2989"><p>Lol, didn't expect a thread on 300 blk would spark this much debate.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I didn't say shape of case. I said shape of projectile and yes it does matter. Higher ballistic coefficient = better performance, retained energy and accuracy. It proven that longer shaped projectiles not only have a better BC, but have better accuracy and retained energy in long distances. Here's a pic of a typical 7.62x39 rounds vs a 300 blk round. Notice that the ogive is longer in a 300 blk specific .308 projectile compared to your usual .308 projectile. This is what gives 300 blk it's higher BC. Could you load a 300 blk projectile in a 7.62x39 case? I suppose you could. Most AK barrels are usually .311 and I would also question how the 300 blackout specific .308 projectiles would function and group in a 7.62x39 case, since these seem to have a different ogive than the run of the mill .308 projectiles.</p><p></p><p><img src="https://www.okshooters.com/data/MetaMirrorCache/i.imgur.com_WQ3V4.png" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " style="" /></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Actually, not really. You can probably make the shorter, rounder .311 AK style bullet projectile work in a 300 blk case. Might run into pressure issues running a .311 bullet through a .308 bore and possibly feeding issues if it makes the overall length of the round too short. Loading longer and heavier grained .300 blk bullet projectile (.308) in a 7.62x39 case might not chamber correctly, since .308 loaded 7.62x39's already tend to run right up to bore. And then there's the question of the 300 blackout specific projectiles that are are typically longer in taper and ogive shape than your standard .308 rounds and also the use of pistol powders, which may mean having to run a shorter custom gas tube, piston and barrel for the AK to cycle correctly. </p><p></p><p>I actually started gathering numbers regarding 300 blk performance vs typical m193 and mk262 and was going to try and get numbers for the Barnes VOR-TX for .300 blk (which is absolutely brutal and too good to be true), but it's 3 AM and decided against it. <img src="/images/smilies/biggrin.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":D" title="Big Grin :D" data-shortname=":D" /> We can spout numbers all day back and forth and it won't end. You will show numbers showing why 300 blk sucks and can be factually true. I can show numbers showing why 300 blk is awesome and be factually true. </p><p></p><p>What the numbers do show is that 300 blk achieves comparable and sometimes better performance than .223 or 7.62x39 when comparing them in supersonic loads and shines in shorter barrels. That's what it was designed for. It's not the ninja round made with unicorns blood that will replace .223, 7.62x39, or any other round. It has a niche and serves it well, it's icing that I can switch mags and run supersonic rounds instantly and get comparable results as .223 or 7.62x39. Comparable, not necessarily better. </p><p></p><p>To say that 300 blk is optimized for nothing is really reaching for straws. Even the most staunch nay-sayers will concede that out of a suppressed SBR, you'll be hard pressed to find better that runs reliably in an AR platform with the same performance. (Off tangent, but 300 blk is actually hotter than 300 whisper. You can shoot 300 whisper out of 300 blk chamber, but not recommended the other way around.) The performance of 300 blk compared to pistol caliber smg's can't even compare, since the 300 blk demolishes the pistol calibers in energy just due to the sheer size and weight of the caliber, offers superior barrier penetrating capabilities and it's just as quiet as the pistol calibers suppressed. And unlike pistol calibers running subsonics, you can easily just slap a mag full of supersonic 300 blk and engage targets out past 100 up to 300 yards with minimal reduction of effectiveness. You can't say that with a pistol caliber SMG.</p><p></p><p>Anyways, if you don't like 300 blackout that's fine. Some people think 6.5 Grendel is the absolute cat's meow, good for them. I find 300 blackout as a general use SBR caliber that gives me the option to be run suppressed in a AR platform using the same components, bolt, mags, ect. to be good enough to invest in. There's really not another caliber in such a common platform like the AR that allows such commonality of parts and .223 still isn't going to go away anytime soon.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="aestus, post: 1999775, member: 2989"] Lol, didn't expect a thread on 300 blk would spark this much debate. I didn't say shape of case. I said shape of projectile and yes it does matter. Higher ballistic coefficient = better performance, retained energy and accuracy. It proven that longer shaped projectiles not only have a better BC, but have better accuracy and retained energy in long distances. Here's a pic of a typical 7.62x39 rounds vs a 300 blk round. Notice that the ogive is longer in a 300 blk specific .308 projectile compared to your usual .308 projectile. This is what gives 300 blk it's higher BC. Could you load a 300 blk projectile in a 7.62x39 case? I suppose you could. Most AK barrels are usually .311 and I would also question how the 300 blackout specific .308 projectiles would function and group in a 7.62x39 case, since these seem to have a different ogive than the run of the mill .308 projectiles. [IMG]https://www.okshooters.com/data/MetaMirrorCache/i.imgur.com_WQ3V4.png[/IMG] Actually, not really. You can probably make the shorter, rounder .311 AK style bullet projectile work in a 300 blk case. Might run into pressure issues running a .311 bullet through a .308 bore and possibly feeding issues if it makes the overall length of the round too short. Loading longer and heavier grained .300 blk bullet projectile (.308) in a 7.62x39 case might not chamber correctly, since .308 loaded 7.62x39's already tend to run right up to bore. And then there's the question of the 300 blackout specific projectiles that are are typically longer in taper and ogive shape than your standard .308 rounds and also the use of pistol powders, which may mean having to run a shorter custom gas tube, piston and barrel for the AK to cycle correctly. I actually started gathering numbers regarding 300 blk performance vs typical m193 and mk262 and was going to try and get numbers for the Barnes VOR-TX for .300 blk (which is absolutely brutal and too good to be true), but it's 3 AM and decided against it. :D We can spout numbers all day back and forth and it won't end. You will show numbers showing why 300 blk sucks and can be factually true. I can show numbers showing why 300 blk is awesome and be factually true. What the numbers do show is that 300 blk achieves comparable and sometimes better performance than .223 or 7.62x39 when comparing them in supersonic loads and shines in shorter barrels. That's what it was designed for. It's not the ninja round made with unicorns blood that will replace .223, 7.62x39, or any other round. It has a niche and serves it well, it's icing that I can switch mags and run supersonic rounds instantly and get comparable results as .223 or 7.62x39. Comparable, not necessarily better. To say that 300 blk is optimized for nothing is really reaching for straws. Even the most staunch nay-sayers will concede that out of a suppressed SBR, you'll be hard pressed to find better that runs reliably in an AR platform with the same performance. (Off tangent, but 300 blk is actually hotter than 300 whisper. You can shoot 300 whisper out of 300 blk chamber, but not recommended the other way around.) The performance of 300 blk compared to pistol caliber smg's can't even compare, since the 300 blk demolishes the pistol calibers in energy just due to the sheer size and weight of the caliber, offers superior barrier penetrating capabilities and it's just as quiet as the pistol calibers suppressed. And unlike pistol calibers running subsonics, you can easily just slap a mag full of supersonic 300 blk and engage targets out past 100 up to 300 yards with minimal reduction of effectiveness. You can't say that with a pistol caliber SMG. Anyways, if you don't like 300 blackout that's fine. Some people think 6.5 Grendel is the absolute cat's meow, good for them. I find 300 blackout as a general use SBR caliber that gives me the option to be run suppressed in a AR platform using the same components, bolt, mags, ect. to be good enough to invest in. There's really not another caliber in such a common platform like the AR that allows such commonality of parts and .223 still isn't going to go away anytime soon. [/QUOTE]
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