Any info you can give on these? 45-75 and 44-40 dug up metal detecting

[Snattlerake]

I dug these up while detecting a location that was on the Chisholm Trail.



Anyone have any information on these as to what weapons might they have come from and why the two 45.75's are only remnants?

The 45.75's are obviously not from the same gun due to the distinctly different firing pin strikes. One has volcanoed the primer.

What years they were manufactured?

What company?

Still being manufactured?

Thanks

 

[MacFromOK]

I got nothing useful, but those finds are waaay cool IMO.

 

[HFS]

Wikipedia says Remington merged with the Union Metallic Cartridge Company (UMC) in 1912.
The ammo plant in Bridgeport, Connecticut, made ammo stamped REM-UMC until 1970.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_Metallic_Cartridge_Company


So the headstamp on the 44-40 would seem to indicate it was made between 1912 and 1970.

 

[Snattlerake]

44.40

It looks like it's a tapered cartridge then necked down a bit.
The flat nose would indicate a lever action rifle round.

I've never heard of a 45.75.

 

[OKCHunter]

Very cool. I hadn't heard of a 45-75 either. But, there is a lot of information about it on the internet. Buffalo Arms makes loaded ammo for it - 20 rounds = $80 plus. Apparently, it was a favorite for Theodore Roosevelt for grizzly bear hunting.

It would be cool to know the story of the men and how that brass got to the place where you found it.

 

[HFS]

For the .44-40:
You are correct about the lever action part.
Winchester introduced the 44-40 (originally called the .44 WCF for Winchester Central Fire, to designate it wasn't the older rimfire design) for the company's 1873 rifle.
Some descriptions of the cartridge today call it a bottleneck round and some say it's a tapered round.
Supposedly it was tapered/bottlenecked for better feeding in lever action rifles.

I will give some total speculation on the .44-40 case you have there.
I've never fired an actual Colt Single Action Army revolver because people who own them snatch their priceless treasures away when they see my clumsy a** coming along.
I have fired some of the Italian replicas of the Colt Peacemaker, in larger calibers like .45 Colt and .44 Special.
I was very surprised to look at the firing pin strike on the spent cases.
Those calibers use Large size pistol primers, and the firing pins left BIG, ROUND, DEEP indentions in those primers, just like your .44-40 case.
Maybe it was fired in a Colt or a replica?

 

[Snattlerake]

The case itself on the 44.40 is the exact same length as my modern 44 MAG case.

 

[Uncle TK]

For the .44-40:
You are correct about the lever action part.
Winchester introduced the 44-40 (originally called the .44 WCF for Winchester Central Fire, to designate it wasn't the older rimfire design) for the company's 1873 rifle.
Some descriptions of the cartridge today call it a bottleneck round and some say it's a tapered round.
Supposedly it was tapered/bottlenecked for better feeding in lever action rifles.

I will give some total speculation on the .44-40 case you have there.
I've never fired an actual Colt Single Action Army revolver because people who own them snatch their priceless treasures away when they see my clumsy a** coming along.
I have fired some of the Italian replicas of the Colt Peacemaker, in larger calibers like .45 Colt and .44 Special.
I was very surprised to look at the firing pin strike on the spent cases.
Those calibers use Large size pistol primers, and the firing pins left BIG, ROUND, DEEP indentions in those primers, just like your .44-40 case.
Maybe it was fired in a Colt or a replica?

Winchester rifles fired Winchester 44 WCF (Winchester Center Fire) were tapered for better extraction.
When Colt chambered the 1873 single action army in Winchester 44 WCF Colt labeled the fire arm 44-40 (44 Caliber with 40 grains of black powder)

 

[Dumpstick]

Clean out the junk inside the case, and look down in there.
Is it a solid head, as are modern cases ? The base around the primer is flat, the primer is essentially flush with the inside of the case.

Or, is it a balloon head? Inside the case,, the primer pocket is extended into the case.

The older balloon head cases are extinct, since somewhere around the 1940s. They will hold more powder, because of the extra room around the primer pocket.

Elmer Keith loaded balloon head 44 specials back in the 1920s when he was doing his thing. That's how he could fit so much powder in his loads. Modern cases don't have the capacity of the balloon head cases.

 

[Okie4570]

44-40 were common because a guy could carry one kind of ammo for his revolver and lever gun.

45-75 was in a lever gun as well, I've held one but never fired it. 1876 Winchester, in pretty poor shape.

Those are great finds!!