Field report/comparison of ACOG & Shepherd scopes

[trbii]

I'd be interested to hear if anyone else has noted these characteristics shooting the $900.00 Trijicon ACOG scope mounted on a flattop AR type rifle, comparing the bullet drop compensation reticles of it to the $600.00 Shepherd rifle scope. The shepherd circle range reticles are by far easier to use when firing my Win. mod #70 Stealth II bolt action rifle, Easier to see, especially out to 400 yds. and beyond. The ACOG horizontal stadia lines are more difficult to see as the distance increases past 300-400 yds. I tested both setups at Red Castle gun club on the Highpower Metallic Silhouette range out to the 500 meter rams. I also found that bullet drop compensating scope reticles don't stop the effects of crosswinds. Elevation can be right on, but 10-15 mph full value to half value wind was pushing my .223 and .308 bullets over into the grass. If I knew then what I know now, I would not have spent the money on the ACOG. But it was fun finding out about it.

 

[Josh-L]

You are comparing apples to oranges in my opinion.

The ACOG is fixed power. I'm going to assume your Shepherd scope is not. You've also said you have them on two different style of rifles.

I don't know anything about the Shepherd scopes. I'm a big Nightforce fan and if you can't afford one of those the cheapest I would get is a Mk4 Leupold.

My favorite setup for an AR where you expect to engage targets out to 400 yards or so is a TAO1 Acog with a mini red dot piggy backed on it. Otherwise stick with an Eotech or Aimpoint as you can score hits even with them easily out to 200 yards.

 

[trbii]

Hello Josh-L, you are right about the apples to oranges comparison. The Shepherd scope is a 3x-10x variable power riflescope. When set on 10x it is a pleasure to shoot metal knock down targets from 200-500 meters. I mostly wanted to comment on my disappointment with the usability or usefullness of the ACOG special forces nsn1240-01-412-6608 bullet drop compensating reticle, tritium riflescope. It has horizontal stadia marks from 100 to 600 meters, but they are tiny and close together. This setup requires the most careful and steady hold possible to get the correct stadia wire on the target at ranges beyond 100yds/meters. I would only be able to use this scope on bright, sunny, clear days with plenty of time to aim carefully. This discovery saddened me when I considered our troops trying to use this overpriced optic in battle over in Iraq and Afghanistan. You're reccomendation on the Leupold sounds good. A BDC rangeing reticle good out to 300-400yds. would serve most of us quite well. By the way, what is a mini red dot piggy?

 

[CAR-AR-M16]

By the way, what is a mini red dot piggy?

I believe he is talking about a setup like this.

[Broken External Image]

 

[trbii]

Thank's CAR-AR-M16, I think I've seen that little unit advertised as the 'Doctor', holographic heads-up display, red dot, battery operated intended for CQC , short range social engagements. Wonder how long the battery life is and how rugged the sight is?

 

[Josh-L]

They are very rugged. Battery life is really long also. The Doctor is the most expensive one. The JPoint is a cheaper version.

I am a Trijicon/Leopold/Doctor/JPoint dealer if you are looking for something else.

I also don't like BDC reticles. They are rarely accurate because they are usually only calculated for a specific load with a specific rifle setup.... ie a 62 grain 223 bullet fired from a 20 inch barrel mounted on the carry handle. So you can see where if you were to put that ACOG on a flat top 14.5 inch barrel and shoot 55 grain bullets, it's going to be off. Same thing with a precision rifle scope also.

Stick with a mil-dot type or moa reticle and just learn your hold overs.

 

[trbii]

Speaking of 14.5" barrels, do you suppose our troops are ever able to engage targets out to 300 meters or beyond, successfully? I've read 100 fps loss of muzzle velocity for every inch of barrel less than 20". My reloading manuals usually say loads tested with 20" HB COLT AR-15. So figure 500-600 fps MV loss coming out of the M-4 carbine? Christ help our troops, a short range varmint cartridge made even slower, weaker? Maybe good enough for making "good islamofascists".

 

[Josh-L]

Drop a zero off your figure. There's no way you loose 100, it's more like 10 - 15. A 14.5 will still have plenty at 300. What hurts our troops is the ammo they are shooting.

 

[brennan]

What is the max distance for an AR?

 

[trbii]

Max distance that will incapacitate a fanatical, drugged or highly motivated human target? That's a good question. Fellow Highpower rifle competitors have pushed a match reload fast enough to hit bullseye targets at 1000 yds. They tell me that is hard on a AR type rifle. 600 yards is done regularly, although my reduced range (200yds.) expert scores fall to 86% sharpshooter when I've tried the full distance match. The crosswinds get me, pushing my 77 gr. reloads a foot away from the ten ring. I've wondered about what distance the 5.56mm bullet runs out of useful steam. I read disturbing stories in the book "Blackhawk Down" of Rangers and Delta Force troops dumping half a mag into Somali militia men only to see them jump back up, AK-47 in hand, charging forward, until M-60 gunner let them have some 7.62 FMJ. Maybe a veteran will comment about the true effective range.