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The Water Cooler
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Florida school shooting
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<blockquote data-quote="tRidiot" data-source="post: 3083855" data-attributes="member: 9374"><p>Correlation does not imply causation.</p><p></p><p>Again.... 80 million people on antidepressants harmed NO ONE today. Just like gun owners. We know without a doubt, factually, from hundreds and hundreds of peer-reviewed studies in journals across the globe, over the course of decades of research, and MOST IMPORTANTLY... with <strong>REPEATABLE RESULTS</strong>... that these classes of medicines are helpful overall in the treatment of mental illness.</p><p></p><p>You can scapegoat them all you like. You can correlate the fact that each of these shooters drank from public water sources (gasp!), ate processed foods filled with hormones and chemicals (say it ain't so!), or any other facet of their daily lives, and that doesn't mean that was the cause. Or the sole cause. Or part of the cause.</p><p></p><p>Are there people who fall through the cracks? Absolutely. Are there people who respond poorly? Sure. Are there people who stop taking their meds, who abuse their meds, who don't follow up with their providers, who use drugs or alcohol while on these meds, whatever. Sure. Does that make it the fault of the meds?</p><p></p><p>How about your grandpa who still had a heart attack while taking his blood pressure and cholesterol meds? Time to blame those meds, take them off the market and publicly flog the drug companies and bankrupt them with lawsuits? Did grandpa continue to smoke? Did those meds reverse the damage done to the intimal walls of his blood vessels over years of gorging on fast food and BBQ? Damn, man... how many people in this country who die from heart disease were on these meds???? Jeez, not only were they not effective in making them immortal, they might have actually KILLED THEM! Ok...</p><p></p><p>I see this ******** all the time... everyone points out that these murderers were on psych meds. Well, maybe because THEY FREAKING NEEDED TO BE?????</p><p></p><p>Let me ask you... you ever <strong>personally </strong>been kicked, punched, spit on, beaten, pissed on, verbally abused or threatened by someone who stopped their psych meds? Or was using them inappropriately, or with other drugs or alcohol? Because I have. <strong>Dozens </strong>of time. <strong>Hundreds </strong>of times. Personally. Me, in my daily life. I deal with crazy psych people constantly. Do you? I've got a bit of experience in over 20 years dealing with this stuff up close and personal. I've had people I have turned over the police MULTIPLE times, telling them every time they were a danger to themselves and to society, who then ended up dead from suicide, from overdose or drug abuse, and even - yes, for real - even at the hands of the police. It's not rocket science. I've even had them end up dead directly from medications <u><strong>I</strong></u> personally gave them (again, when they abused them). Is that my fault? Is that the meds' fault? You tell me.... whose fault is it??</p><p></p><p>Medications can have side effects. Yes. We know this. It's not a reason to vilify them and throw the baby out with the bath water. They do much more good than harm. Most of our drugs on the market do. You want to take all those meds away, see how f***ing crazy our society goes? America has lost the capability to function as a normal society without outside aids, for lots of reasons. There are social reasons. Religious reasons. Family reasons. Monetary, electronic and global pressures that all contribute.</p><p></p><p>Again... correlation does not imply causation. If these people were on psych meds, maybe THEY NEEDED TO BE. Maybe they needed MORE. Maybe they needed different ones. Who knows... but like I said, trying to vilify an entire class of PROVEN helpful meds because of a few "bad apples" is no different than blaming guns for being present as part of the problem.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="tRidiot, post: 3083855, member: 9374"] Correlation does not imply causation. Again.... 80 million people on antidepressants harmed NO ONE today. Just like gun owners. We know without a doubt, factually, from hundreds and hundreds of peer-reviewed studies in journals across the globe, over the course of decades of research, and MOST IMPORTANTLY... with [B]REPEATABLE RESULTS[/B]... that these classes of medicines are helpful overall in the treatment of mental illness. You can scapegoat them all you like. You can correlate the fact that each of these shooters drank from public water sources (gasp!), ate processed foods filled with hormones and chemicals (say it ain't so!), or any other facet of their daily lives, and that doesn't mean that was the cause. Or the sole cause. Or part of the cause. Are there people who fall through the cracks? Absolutely. Are there people who respond poorly? Sure. Are there people who stop taking their meds, who abuse their meds, who don't follow up with their providers, who use drugs or alcohol while on these meds, whatever. Sure. Does that make it the fault of the meds? How about your grandpa who still had a heart attack while taking his blood pressure and cholesterol meds? Time to blame those meds, take them off the market and publicly flog the drug companies and bankrupt them with lawsuits? Did grandpa continue to smoke? Did those meds reverse the damage done to the intimal walls of his blood vessels over years of gorging on fast food and BBQ? Damn, man... how many people in this country who die from heart disease were on these meds???? Jeez, not only were they not effective in making them immortal, they might have actually KILLED THEM! Ok... I see this ******** all the time... everyone points out that these murderers were on psych meds. Well, maybe because THEY FREAKING NEEDED TO BE????? Let me ask you... you ever [B]personally [/B]been kicked, punched, spit on, beaten, pissed on, verbally abused or threatened by someone who stopped their psych meds? Or was using them inappropriately, or with other drugs or alcohol? Because I have. [B]Dozens [/B]of time. [B]Hundreds [/B]of times. Personally. Me, in my daily life. I deal with crazy psych people constantly. Do you? I've got a bit of experience in over 20 years dealing with this stuff up close and personal. I've had people I have turned over the police MULTIPLE times, telling them every time they were a danger to themselves and to society, who then ended up dead from suicide, from overdose or drug abuse, and even - yes, for real - even at the hands of the police. It's not rocket science. I've even had them end up dead directly from medications [U][B]I[/B][/U] personally gave them (again, when they abused them). Is that my fault? Is that the meds' fault? You tell me.... whose fault is it?? Medications can have side effects. Yes. We know this. It's not a reason to vilify them and throw the baby out with the bath water. They do much more good than harm. Most of our drugs on the market do. You want to take all those meds away, see how f***ing crazy our society goes? America has lost the capability to function as a normal society without outside aids, for lots of reasons. There are social reasons. Religious reasons. Family reasons. Monetary, electronic and global pressures that all contribute. Again... correlation does not imply causation. If these people were on psych meds, maybe THEY NEEDED TO BE. Maybe they needed MORE. Maybe they needed different ones. Who knows... but like I said, trying to vilify an entire class of PROVEN helpful meds because of a few "bad apples" is no different than blaming guns for being present as part of the problem. [/QUOTE]
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