Forums
New posts
Search forums
What's new
New posts
New media
New media comments
Latest activity
Classifieds
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Log in
Register
What's New?
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
New posts
Search forums
Menu
Log in
Register
Navigation
Install the app
Install
More Options
Advertise with us
Contact Us
Close Menu
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Forums
The Range
Law & Order
Open carry?
Search titles only
By:
Reply to Thread
This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Griffin" data-source="post: 1492212" data-attributes="member: 18194"><p>It appears that maybe you mistook the message behind my initial post; perhaps I didnt make my point, or failed to clarify what I was trying to say, I am sorry for the confusion.</p><p></p><p>What I was originally trying to say was that age is irrelevant to maturity (in our contemporary culture). As others have pointed out, anyone, at any age, may not be a responsible gun over. It is my belief that the majority of 18-year-olds today are irresponsible. But I also think many older adults are irresponsible.</p><p>I know 50 something year old men who work 9-5, go home and play video games all night (like world of warcraft). These men act like children, shedding responsibility, escaping into a reality that they prefer, just to wake up the next day and repeat. They work only so they can play. </p><p>I also know a young man who recently turned 15, he owns his own software company, writes applications for corporate clients, and already earns a comfortable yearly salary by todays standard.</p><p></p><p>Age is irrelevant, mature men (I am discussing men because they comprise the majority of gun owners, sorry ladies <img src="/images/smilies/wink.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" data-shortname=";)" /> ) are nowhere to be found, according to a Newsweek article published in 2008, less than a third of men at the age of 30 have transitioned into adulthood, a direct quote is Today's guys are perhaps the first downwardly mobileand endlessly adolescentgeneration of men in U.S. history. </p><p></p><p>Every man, woman and child, should show noticeable signs of character growth as time passes, there is no retirement age for maturing, and we all should actively try to reform each day, to improve, to grow; sadly this is not the case in our culture.</p><p></p><p>I am not saying that 18-year-olds are mature, I think, like you, that most 18-year-olds are not responsible and that they do not have the maturity needed to lawfully carry a gun. Furthermore I agree that men and women in the military mostly conduct themselves with greater levels of maturity than their civilian counterparts, not because they have been trained to use a weapon, but because they have been trained to respect authority, and know the true cost of their actions and inactions, something that most of their civvie peers have no concept of. In short they are self-governing.</p><p></p><p>The important divergence from your train of thought is even if we may not want certain people to lawfully carry guns, we have NO JURISDICTION to deny them (as long as they are eligible, no felons etc). </p><p></p><p>It is not our job, or any other person in the worlds job to regulate, and deny peoples God given rights just because we feel they do not measure up. Law abiding citizens of any age, adults for example, have the right to defend themselves, and since the law currently classifies a person as an adult once you reach the age of 18, that person, should hold equal rights ( after all I wasn't aware that 21+ were more equal than 18-20).</p><p></p><p>Moreover, the age of 18 you face the full repercussions of law-breaking, yet you do not enjoy many of the benefits of being an adult. Why is it that at 18 you can vote for civil magistrates, a responsibility that has more implications than carrying, an action that can shape the course of history, yet you cannot carry to defend yourself?</p><p></p><p>There is no justice in the arbitrary age requirement, if all people are not equal in the eyes of the law then the law holds no meaning and should be disregarded, if the law does not govern every person, it governs no one.</p><p></p><p>I hope my 19yr doesn't find this out.. He is a good example why someone under 21 doesn't need to own a firearm, period</p><p></p><p>Yes it is true that a person 18 years and older can buy a handgun from a private seller (non FFL) or be gifted. There are very few states that laws to forbid this (Oklahoma is not one of them), and the only reason that an under 21-year-old cannot buy from an FFL dealer is because of federal law.</p><p>While I always advocate heeding and respecting the counsel of your elders (especially parents, no matter what age you may be) technically your son does have the right to buy a handgun, a right that no one can infringe upon. This does not mean that every person able should run out and buy a gun, only that they do have the right to, if theu so choose. A gun is simply another a tool, not everyone needs bench saw, but if wanted one they shouldn't be denied.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>That is exactly correct, since the legal age for an adult is 18, and you are expected to have those responsibilities, you should have the means to fulfill them. Until the laws are made consistent, it is a gross form of tyranny that the public, even the majority of gun owners, seem happy to adopt.</p><p></p><p>Tagillespie: Thank you for everything you are doing, hopefully Oklahoma can someday become a Constitutional Carry state.</p><p></p><p>In conclusion I will leave you with a quote from a far more insightful man than I can ever hope.</p><p></p><p>When after having thus successively taken each member of the community in its powerful grasp, and fashioned him at will, the supreme power then extends its arm over the whole community. <strong>It covers the surface of society with a network of small complicated rules,</strong> minute and uniform, through which the most original minds and the most energetic characters cannot penetrate, to rise above the crowd. <strong>The will of man is not shattered, but softened, bent, and guided; men are seldom forced by it to act, but they are constantly restrained from acting.</strong> Such a power does not destroy, but it prevents existence; it does not tyrannize, but it compresses, enervates, extinguishes, and stupefies a people, <strong>till each nation is reduced to nothing better than a flock of timid and industrious animals, of which the government is the shepherd.</strong> I have always thought that servitude of the regular, quiet, and gentle kind which I have just described <strong>might be combined more easily than is commonly believed with some of the outward forms of freedom</strong> and that it might even establish itself under the wing of the sovereignty of the people. </p><p>-Alexis de Tocqueville, Democracy in America (1835)</p><p></p><p>Chis Griffin</p><p></p><p></p><p>Article Cited <a href="http://www.newsweek.com/2008/08/30/why-i-am-leaving-guyland.html" target="_blank">http://www.newsweek.com/2008/08/30/why-i-am-leaving-guyland.html</a></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Griffin, post: 1492212, member: 18194"] It appears that maybe you mistook the message behind my initial post; perhaps I didnt make my point, or failed to clarify what I was trying to say, I am sorry for the confusion. What I was originally trying to say was that age is irrelevant to maturity (in our contemporary culture). As others have pointed out, anyone, at any age, may not be a responsible gun over. It is my belief that the majority of 18-year-olds today are irresponsible. But I also think many older adults are irresponsible. I know 50 something year old men who work 9-5, go home and play video games all night (like world of warcraft). These men act like children, shedding responsibility, escaping into a reality that they prefer, just to wake up the next day and repeat. They work only so they can play. I also know a young man who recently turned 15, he owns his own software company, writes applications for corporate clients, and already earns a comfortable yearly salary by todays standard. Age is irrelevant, mature men (I am discussing men because they comprise the majority of gun owners, sorry ladies ;) ) are nowhere to be found, according to a Newsweek article published in 2008, less than a third of men at the age of 30 have transitioned into adulthood, a direct quote is Today's guys are perhaps the first downwardly mobileand endlessly adolescentgeneration of men in U.S. history. Every man, woman and child, should show noticeable signs of character growth as time passes, there is no retirement age for maturing, and we all should actively try to reform each day, to improve, to grow; sadly this is not the case in our culture. I am not saying that 18-year-olds are mature, I think, like you, that most 18-year-olds are not responsible and that they do not have the maturity needed to lawfully carry a gun. Furthermore I agree that men and women in the military mostly conduct themselves with greater levels of maturity than their civilian counterparts, not because they have been trained to use a weapon, but because they have been trained to respect authority, and know the true cost of their actions and inactions, something that most of their civvie peers have no concept of. In short they are self-governing. The important divergence from your train of thought is even if we may not want certain people to lawfully carry guns, we have NO JURISDICTION to deny them (as long as they are eligible, no felons etc). It is not our job, or any other person in the worlds job to regulate, and deny peoples God given rights just because we feel they do not measure up. Law abiding citizens of any age, adults for example, have the right to defend themselves, and since the law currently classifies a person as an adult once you reach the age of 18, that person, should hold equal rights ( after all I wasn't aware that 21+ were more equal than 18-20). Moreover, the age of 18 you face the full repercussions of law-breaking, yet you do not enjoy many of the benefits of being an adult. Why is it that at 18 you can vote for civil magistrates, a responsibility that has more implications than carrying, an action that can shape the course of history, yet you cannot carry to defend yourself? There is no justice in the arbitrary age requirement, if all people are not equal in the eyes of the law then the law holds no meaning and should be disregarded, if the law does not govern every person, it governs no one. I hope my 19yr doesn't find this out.. He is a good example why someone under 21 doesn't need to own a firearm, period Yes it is true that a person 18 years and older can buy a handgun from a private seller (non FFL) or be gifted. There are very few states that laws to forbid this (Oklahoma is not one of them), and the only reason that an under 21-year-old cannot buy from an FFL dealer is because of federal law. While I always advocate heeding and respecting the counsel of your elders (especially parents, no matter what age you may be) technically your son does have the right to buy a handgun, a right that no one can infringe upon. This does not mean that every person able should run out and buy a gun, only that they do have the right to, if theu so choose. A gun is simply another a tool, not everyone needs bench saw, but if wanted one they shouldn't be denied. That is exactly correct, since the legal age for an adult is 18, and you are expected to have those responsibilities, you should have the means to fulfill them. Until the laws are made consistent, it is a gross form of tyranny that the public, even the majority of gun owners, seem happy to adopt. Tagillespie: Thank you for everything you are doing, hopefully Oklahoma can someday become a Constitutional Carry state. In conclusion I will leave you with a quote from a far more insightful man than I can ever hope. When after having thus successively taken each member of the community in its powerful grasp, and fashioned him at will, the supreme power then extends its arm over the whole community. [B]It covers the surface of society with a network of small complicated rules,[/B] minute and uniform, through which the most original minds and the most energetic characters cannot penetrate, to rise above the crowd. [B]The will of man is not shattered, but softened, bent, and guided; men are seldom forced by it to act, but they are constantly restrained from acting.[/B] Such a power does not destroy, but it prevents existence; it does not tyrannize, but it compresses, enervates, extinguishes, and stupefies a people, [B]till each nation is reduced to nothing better than a flock of timid and industrious animals, of which the government is the shepherd.[/B] I have always thought that servitude of the regular, quiet, and gentle kind which I have just described [B]might be combined more easily than is commonly believed with some of the outward forms of freedom[/B] and that it might even establish itself under the wing of the sovereignty of the people. -Alexis de Tocqueville, Democracy in America (1835) Chis Griffin Article Cited [url]http://www.newsweek.com/2008/08/30/why-i-am-leaving-guyland.html[/url] [/QUOTE]
Insert Quotes…
Verification
Post Reply
Forums
The Range
Law & Order
Open carry?
Search titles only
By:
Top
Bottom
