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The Water Cooler
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Pulling The Troops Out Of Afghanistan
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<blockquote data-quote="Poke78" data-source="post: 3569692" data-attributes="member: 4333"><p>Plenty of people have said it across history and it never hurts to re-visit proven wisdom: Afghanistan -- the place where empires go to die.</p><p></p><p>The only time the US was truly combat effective, i.e. killing more of them than our losses, was the early days that were detailed in the book(s) "Horse Soldiers"/"12 Strong" by Doug Stanton. It was classic use of Special Forces by organizing/training/equipping indigenous forces and providing superior US air power when needed. Even though that was highly effective, it is still essentially impossible to overcome the basic feudal nature of that country and its people. Too much history there to really make a difference, not to even mention the primary product of their economy, the opium poppy, was so devastating to humans everywhere. The potential to "Win" did not really exist and history was staring us in the face to emphasize the point.</p><p></p><p>The choice then becomes a decision about whether you are mad at them or scared of them. Given 9/11, we were probably both, initially. The trouble was that we were mad at who had organized/executed the attack and scared of who had paid for it. The answer to both of those questions was "the Saudis" and we were deeply in bed with them for most of the 20th Century. It became a matter of transferring the mad to some puppet and that became Afghanistan because it was used as a base of operations by the anti-American faction of Saudis.</p><p></p><p>ETA: Stated all the above to say this in summary - we were always destined to leave Afghanistan ignominously with the only unknowns going in being how many lives and how many dollars would be expended to achieve the foregone conclusion. I will further state that NONE of the disgrace or shame belongs to any member of the military who risked or gave their life in this endeavor. It belongs fully to the political apparatus and "leadership."</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Poke78, post: 3569692, member: 4333"] Plenty of people have said it across history and it never hurts to re-visit proven wisdom: Afghanistan -- the place where empires go to die. The only time the US was truly combat effective, i.e. killing more of them than our losses, was the early days that were detailed in the book(s) "Horse Soldiers"/"12 Strong" by Doug Stanton. It was classic use of Special Forces by organizing/training/equipping indigenous forces and providing superior US air power when needed. Even though that was highly effective, it is still essentially impossible to overcome the basic feudal nature of that country and its people. Too much history there to really make a difference, not to even mention the primary product of their economy, the opium poppy, was so devastating to humans everywhere. The potential to "Win" did not really exist and history was staring us in the face to emphasize the point. The choice then becomes a decision about whether you are mad at them or scared of them. Given 9/11, we were probably both, initially. The trouble was that we were mad at who had organized/executed the attack and scared of who had paid for it. The answer to both of those questions was "the Saudis" and we were deeply in bed with them for most of the 20th Century. It became a matter of transferring the mad to some puppet and that became Afghanistan because it was used as a base of operations by the anti-American faction of Saudis. ETA: Stated all the above to say this in summary - we were always destined to leave Afghanistan ignominously with the only unknowns going in being how many lives and how many dollars would be expended to achieve the foregone conclusion. I will further state that NONE of the disgrace or shame belongs to any member of the military who risked or gave their life in this endeavor. It belongs fully to the political apparatus and "leadership." [/QUOTE]
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