Solid General Purpose Folder

[ez bake]

Benchmade actually manufactured the first couple of Ernie's designs for him back when he was getting started (most famously the CQC series - those that are still labeled Benchmade / Emerson are worth quite a bit of money these days).

No denying that Emersons are great knives, but I've owned 3 and the fit/finish leaves plenty to be desired for the kind of money you pay. I've not experienced the infamous blade-play that so many complain about, but they are just Ti liner-lock knives (all of mine had visible sloppy tooling marks on the liners and the scales/liners on a few were slightly mis-matched in a couple of places).

They're great designs, but if you try and abuse them like they're some sort of super-knife, they will fail you (and have - in several documented cases). They also make their scales uber-thick (even on most of the smaller models), which I'm not a fan of, but it does fill the hand better and most folks seem to like them in the hand.

All that being said, I really regret selling my A100 (once I re-profiled it to a true-V ground edge) and my CQC-7v. I can do without several of Emerson's other models (not a fan of chisel-grinds, combo-edges, or re-curves), but those two were great knives. The newer Spec War does looks pretty nice too.

 

[juscvin]

I'll second the Emerson suggestion. There is an OKC Emerson dealer but IMHO he's very overpriced IE $260 for a knife that can be had at 200 from EKI or under that from Blade HQ


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[SoonerBorn]

Chask,
Thanks for the info and suggestion. Still doing research and browsing; might be doing that for a while before my purchase. Thanks to everyone else as well.

My little brother is the one in 2D RGR BN, btw.


Sent from my meh, using my meh.

 

[chask]

Chask,
Thanks for the info and suggestion. Still doing research and browsing; might be doing that for a while before my purchase. Thanks to everyone else as well.

My little brother is the one in 2D RGR BN, btw.


Sent from my meh, using my meh.

No problem. Please don't hesitate to ask if I can help at all.

At one time I had a knife collection. I got into it because my two sons were in Scouting and wanted knives my wife and I thought were a bit too much for boys their age. So I kept them until they went on Scout camping trips (with adult supervision). Both of them eventually had a small collection that I kept for them. I soon learned I really liked knives too. Before I knew it I was hooked, and carrying one too. Now I use mine at least a couple of times a day for all sorts of stuff and can't figure out how I ever got by without one. The point of all this is - In this process I have seen or have had a whole lot of knives from a lot of manufacturers and custom makers, both for the collection and as hard users. Eventually I gravitated to Emersons because they always seemed to be the easiest to use and maintain. They were so ergonomic (comfortable to hold and easy to manipulate) that I could focus more on the job than on getting the knife to do the job. The difference was subtle, but definitely there. Basically I think a tool is best when you don't notice it, you only notice what it's doing. Several years in automive shops taught me that one. That's why I like Emersons so much. Almost all of their designs felt great in my hand, and some seemed to almost just disappear (those are the ones I carry/carried). I've never had a problem with any of them.

There are lots of really good knife makers out there and you've had lots of good suggestions. As I am sure you are already aware, I think the price difference boils down to the materials used and how much manual labor vs. machine labor it took to build one. Honestly, I don't think most people would know the difference between an ATS-34. CPM154, D2 or any of the other steels when using a blade. I'm not sure I would either, except perhaps that I have noticed some need to be sharpened a bit more frequently than others; some a lot more. Far as I have been able to tell some steels just hold an edge better, especially with certain uses and/or environments (water, solvents, etc.). Some also tend to rust, pit, stain, discolor, etc. a bit more. Likewise, some scale materials tend to hold up better or are easier to hold onto. Keep what you plan to do with it in mind when you are buying. Better materials and hand fitting cost more, but when you consider the long term sometimes that extra cost is more than worth it.

I'm no expert, not by a long shot. Just get the one that feels really good in your hand (that you will be able to use without much thought) and that you think will hold up well under the use and abuse you plan to give it. You'll be very happy. But I'd really give a lot of thought to what I planned to cut with it and how often it will be used. I'm not real fond of sharpening and a few extra bucks to not have to do it as often is well worth it to me.

Please thank your little brother for his service, and ask him to please pass that on to everyone he serves with.

 

[SoonerBorn]

No problem. Please don't hesitate to ask if I can help at all.

At one time I had a knife collection. I got into it because my two sons were in Scouting and wanted knives my wife and I thought were a bit too much for boys their age. So I kept them until they went on Scout camping trips (with adult supervision). Both of them eventually had a small collection that I kept for them. I soon learned I really liked knives too. Before I knew it I was hooked, and carrying one too. Now I use mine at least a couple of times a day for all sorts of stuff and can't figure out how I ever got by without one. The point of all this is - In this process I have seen or have had a whole lot of knives from a lot of manufacturers and custom makers, both for the collection and as hard users. Eventually I gravitated to Emersons because they always seemed to be the easiest to use and maintain. They were so ergonomic (comfortable to hold and easy to manipulate) that I could focus more on the job than on getting the knife to do the job. The difference was subtle, but definitely there. Basically I think a tool is best when you don't notice it, you only notice what it's doing. Several years in automive shops taught me that one. That's why I like Emersons so much. Almost all of their designs felt great in my hand, and some seemed to almost just disappear (those are the ones I carry/carried). I've never had a problem with any of them.

There are lots of really good knife makers out there and you've had lots of good suggestions. As I am sure you are already aware, I think the price difference boils down to the materials used and how much manual labor vs. machine labor it took to build one. Honestly, I don't think most people would know the difference between an ATS-34. CPM154, D2 or any of the other steels when using a blade. I'm not sure I would either, except perhaps that I have noticed some need to be sharpened a bit more frequently than others; some a lot more. Far as I have been able to tell some steels just hold an edge better, especially with certain uses and/or environments (water, solvents, etc.). Some also tend to rust, pit, stain, discolor, etc. a bit more. Likewise, some scale materials tend to hold up better or are easier to hold onto. Keep what you plan to do with it in mind when you are buying. Better materials and hand fitting cost more, but when you consider the long term sometimes that extra cost is more than worth it.

I'm no expert, not by a long shot. Just get the one that feels really good in your hand (that you will be able to use without much thought) and that you think will hold up well under the use and abuse you plan to give it. You'll be very happy. But I'd really give a lot of thought to what I planned to cut with it and how often it will be used. I'm not real fond of sharpening and a few extra bucks to not have to do it as often is well worth it to me.

Please thank your little brother for his service, and ask him to please pass that on to everyone he serves with.

Thank you very much for your input; it is very helpful.

I'll certainly pass it along to my brother. He is a member here but isn't on the forum much.


Sent from my meh, using my meh.

 

[cdoan02]

After years of going through cheap knives, I finally bit the bullet and decided to go for quality. Bought a Benchmade 940 Osbourne, and I friggin love it. The cost is definitely worth it. I also got a great deal on a ZT0350 from A5Sooner, and love it as well. I'll post some positive feedback for him as soon as I hit my minimum post!

 

[Jestik]

I never said it was a lock-back. I said "lock bar" and batonning with a liner lock folder while the lock bar is engaged means you've probably done some pretty good damage to the lock-face (by most manufacturer's standards, that is abuse and not normal use, so you've also likely avoided Ontario's limited warranty on the knife). I'd wager that there is a bit of vertical blade-play in it now which typically means a lock-failure is on it's way.

If you understood the physics behind what's going on in a liner-lock knife, you'd know that there is only a tiny bit of metal-on-metal contact (just the very edge of the liner contacts the lock-face on the tang) and the liner is likely made of a 440 or other stainless steel (which is not a tool steel and not designed to be beat on).

Michael Walker (the designer of the liner-lock system) has actually weighed in and said that the locking mechanism itself is not meant to handle great amounts of shock (which includes over-strikes, spine-whacks, and batonning).

If you've seriously done any hard batonning with that folder (with the lock-bar engaged), I wouldn't trust the lock-bar to stay engaged while you do any hard stabbing or anything that might cause an over-strike or you could lose a finger. There are better lock-systems out there more suited for chopping/batonning if you're seriously wanting to do that with a folder (but then again, there are cheap fixed-blades that will work even better).

The Ontario RAT 1 is a great little folder (I've owned two and a RAT 2). It's a great bargain and I've listed a bunch of other bargain knives on this site here:

https://www.okshooters.com/showthre...get-Folding-Knives-for-this-Christmas-season&

But just because you own one and beat on it (and posted pictures that don't necessarily prove you batonned with it), that doesn't mean that those of us who own knives that are more than $200 don't use them. I use all my knives - the budget-priced knives and the more expensive ones, and even the limited-production models that aren't made anymore (drives some of my fellow knife-nuts crazy to see me break out my Carbon Fiber Para-2 and use it like any of my other folders). But I use them to you know... cut stuff.

I occasionally stab stuff that needs stabbing, or carve stuff that needs carving, but I go to my fixed blades to do things like batonning and chopping. I like to use the right tool for the right job, but that's just me - I'm funny that way.

I also don't use my handguns as hammers, or my rifles as pry-bars either.

Are you calling me a liar?

And the more that I re-read what you wrote, it is clear that you think that I am.

Who the **** do you think you are, and what gives you the right?

I'll send you a PM and I'd be more than happy to meet up with you in Tulsa to show you my knife and the "blade-play" you assume that it has.

To the OPer, I'd say go with a Ontario RAT 1 and see if it fits your needs and sensibilities. If it does everything you need it to do, then you've got what you wanted for $25. If it doesn't, I'll buy it from you and you can go and spend way too much on a $200 folder. Win/win in my book.

 

[ez bake]

Are you calling me a liar?

And the more that I re-read what you wrote, it is clear that you think that I am.

Who the **** do you think you are, and what gives you the right?

I'll send you a PM and I'd be more than happy to meet up with you in Tulsa to show you my knife and the "blade-play" you assume that it has.

To the OPer, I'd say go with a Ontario RAT 1 and see if it fits your needs and sensibilities. If it does everything you need it to do, then you've got what you wanted for $25. If it doesn't, I'll buy it from you and you can go and spend way too much on a $200 folder. Win/win in my book.

Sigh...

Easy killer - I never called you a liar I was just responding to this:

I doubt anyone who has a $200 knife has really used it, and if you've got the photos to prove me wrong, please post them.

Which is sort of calling out a lot of us who own $200+ knives (and use them) as liars. Batonning with a liner-lock folder (with the lock-bar engaged) is not a good idea and as I've said, if you did this you more than likely did damage to the knife - damage that Ontario will likely tell you is abuse (so you've voided your warranty), and damage that might not be showing up now, but will likely cause the knife to fail if you're using it in any way that puts stress on the lock-bar (the most common use is stabbing) since you've essentially peened the lock-bar face.
That's physics - it's not my fault and by stating that, I'm not calling you a liar.

I said that because I honestly don't want to see you lose a finger just to prove how bad-ass your knife is. Knives are tools - they can and do fail when abused or used incorrectly.

The Ontario RAT 1 is a great knife (better than a lot of more expensive folders). Like I said, I've owned 2 of them and a RAT-2 (and given a few of them away as gifts), but it has it's limitations just like any other tool and it is in no way better than all of the other knives listed in this thread so far. I don't know why you are so angry that anyone would own a more expensive folding knife, but you sound like you have some sort of chip on your shoulder about it. If you say you batonned with your liner-lock folder than cool. Pics don't prove that and someone saying they use their $200 knife isn't proving anything by posting pics either.

But calling everyone who owns a more expensive knife out (and then raging about anyone having the audacity to question your logic or actions) doesn't exactly give you any credibility. Settle down man - folding knives are plentiful and there's enough variety and options now that we can all own what we want.

That's the cool thing about the knife-world right now - there's something for everyone. No need to get angry because someone else has something different.

Seriously though - if you've batonned with that RAT-1, I'd at least check it for failure by doing a soft spine-tap or stab test (fingers out of the way). They aren't designed to do that.

 

[Jestik]

Sigh...

Easy killer - I never called you a liar I was just responding to this:



Which is sort of calling out a lot of us who own $200+ knives (and use them) as liars. Batonning with a liner-lock folder (with the lock-bar engaged) is not a good idea and as I've said, if you did this you more than likely did damage to the knife - damage that Ontario will likely tell you is abuse (so you've voided your warranty), and damage that might not be showing up now, but will likely cause the knife to fail if you're using it in any way that puts stress on the lock-bar (the most common use is stabbing) since you've essentially peened the lock-bar face.
That's physics - it's not my fault and by stating that, I'm not calling you a liar.

I said that because I honestly don't want to see you lose a finger just to prove how bad-ass your knife is. Knives are tools - they can and do fail when abused or used incorrectly.

The Ontario RAT 1 is a great knife (better than a lot of more expensive folders). Like I said, I've owned 2 of them and a RAT-2 (and given a few of them away as gifts), but it has it's limitations just like any other tool and it is in no way better than all of the other knives listed in this thread so far. I don't know why you are so angry that anyone would own a more expensive folding knife, but you sound like you have some sort of chip on your shoulder about it. If you say you batonned with your liner-lock folder than cool. Pics don't prove that and someone saying they use their $200 knife isn't proving anything by posting pics either.

But calling everyone who owns a more expensive knife out (and then raging about anyone having the audacity to question your logic or actions) doesn't exactly give you any credibility. Settle down man - folding knives are plentiful and there's enough variety and options now that we can all own what we want.

That's the cool thing about the knife-world right now - there's something for everyone. No need to get angry because someone else has something different.

Seriously though - if you've batonned with that RAT-1, I'd at least check it for failure by doing a soft spine-tap or stab test (fingers out of the way). They aren't designed to do that.

Most people I know who have $200+ knives (especially folding ones) do not use them like they do their $25 knife. If you'd like me to amend my comment to say "Most" people who own $200 instead of "anyone", I'd be happy to do so.

And as I told you in PM, I'm not out to meet you and beat you up and steal your lunch money. I just wanted to show you my knife so you could see that it was still functional and still had 100% lockup, and that is over a year after I battonned some wood with it.

And for the record, I've not killed anyone.

 

[ez bake]

Most people I know who have $200+ knives (especially folding ones) do not use them like they do their $25 knife. If you'd like me to amend my comment to say "Most" people who own $200 instead of "anyone", I'd be happy to do so.

And as I told you in PM, I'm not out to meet you and beat you up and steal your lunch money. I just wanted to show you my knife so you could see that it was still functional and still had 100% lockup, and that is over a year after I battonned some wood with it.

And for the record, I've not killed anyone.

You're not reading anything I'm saying in this thread or PM, so it doesn't matter what I type.

Show me where I called you a liar. What did I say you were lying about? Better yet, don't bother - I'm tired of even dealing with someone who has such a fragile ego that he'd get into internet threats over someone posting facts about the way physics works.

OP, better follow this guys advice or you'll be getting PM threats.

BTW, go back and re-read your last PM - you specifically said you wanted to meet up to "beat me up". I'd advise against that.

I do not appreciate being called a liar. Period. End of statement. I have met a lot of people on this board personally, I conduct business here on certain occasions, and I think you are way off-base calling me a liar. That is what I have a problem with.

I was threatening to beat you up or take your lunch money. I am in Tulsa quite regularly as I went to high school there and my mother still lives there. You seem to believe that my knife has this weird blade play and what not and that is not the case. I wanted to show you my knife to prove to you that is not the case.

That's all.

If you re-read your post, you are blatantly calling me a liar, and I wanted to point out that was not the case, and wanted to prove otherwise.

Jonathan

Get help.