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The Range
Law & Order
Stand Your Ground law coming under scrutiny due to the Zimmerman/Florida incident
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<blockquote data-quote="Antigonus" data-source="post: 1777099" data-attributes="member: 19664"><p>Glocktogo, you didn't address any of my specific points - as usual. I'll re-post them and we'll see if you can actually participate in the discussion rather than drop a few emoticons and insults, which seems to be your usual M.O. I may disagree with Mr. Brown here, but I very much respect his willingness to defend his position clearly and succinctly, instead of treating this like some sort of cheerleading contest in which our personal reputations are on the line.</p><p></p><p>-Of course it is, but SYG (at least in FL) effectively makes killing someone not a crime unless the state can prove you weren't acting in self-defense. In most murder trials as you know, the main question is whether or not the defendant committed the crime. In a trial like this, the jury is asked to determine the mindset of the victim and make a value judgment of that mindset. SYG allows for situations like this one, in which we have the word of a man on trial for murder against the word of a dead kid. Justice is not easily meted out in such situations because as stated before, the prosecution must prove a negative - that the defendant wasn't in danger when he made the choice to kill another person. </p><p></p><p>-The burden of proof is not on Zimmerman, it is on the DA. Hypothetically Zimmerman could just not hire a lawyer and sit there during the trial, and if the plaintiff conducts a poor case then he could go free without Zimmerman having to do anything. That is not a situation in which the burden of proof is on the killer. Reasonable doubt is on Zimmerman's side, not the DA's here. At the end of the day, all other considerations aside, the state of Florida must prove to the jury beyond a reasonable doubt that Martin Zimmerman committed murder. The DA has to show that Zimmerman was not acting in a reasonable manner, which is waaaay different from requiring Zimmerman to show that he was acting reasonable.</p><p></p><p>-No, this is not correct. The DA has the burden of proof here. Zimmerman will certainly help himself by attempting to show that he "NEEDED" to use force here, but all the defense "needs" to do is counter the DA's claims, not assert their own. The DA must show strong evidence that Zimmerman maliciously murdered Martin, which means they must show both unreasonable behavior and intent.</p><p></p><p>Affirmative defense is somewhat irrelevant in Florida law because the way the SYG law is written, self defense must be disproved by the prosecutor if the SYG defense is invoked. It may be different here in OK but in Florida, this is not the case.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Antigonus, post: 1777099, member: 19664"] Glocktogo, you didn't address any of my specific points - as usual. I'll re-post them and we'll see if you can actually participate in the discussion rather than drop a few emoticons and insults, which seems to be your usual M.O. I may disagree with Mr. Brown here, but I very much respect his willingness to defend his position clearly and succinctly, instead of treating this like some sort of cheerleading contest in which our personal reputations are on the line. -Of course it is, but SYG (at least in FL) effectively makes killing someone not a crime unless the state can prove you weren't acting in self-defense. In most murder trials as you know, the main question is whether or not the defendant committed the crime. In a trial like this, the jury is asked to determine the mindset of the victim and make a value judgment of that mindset. SYG allows for situations like this one, in which we have the word of a man on trial for murder against the word of a dead kid. Justice is not easily meted out in such situations because as stated before, the prosecution must prove a negative - that the defendant wasn't in danger when he made the choice to kill another person. -The burden of proof is not on Zimmerman, it is on the DA. Hypothetically Zimmerman could just not hire a lawyer and sit there during the trial, and if the plaintiff conducts a poor case then he could go free without Zimmerman having to do anything. That is not a situation in which the burden of proof is on the killer. Reasonable doubt is on Zimmerman's side, not the DA's here. At the end of the day, all other considerations aside, the state of Florida must prove to the jury beyond a reasonable doubt that Martin Zimmerman committed murder. The DA has to show that Zimmerman was not acting in a reasonable manner, which is waaaay different from requiring Zimmerman to show that he was acting reasonable. -No, this is not correct. The DA has the burden of proof here. Zimmerman will certainly help himself by attempting to show that he "NEEDED" to use force here, but all the defense "needs" to do is counter the DA's claims, not assert their own. The DA must show strong evidence that Zimmerman maliciously murdered Martin, which means they must show both unreasonable behavior and intent. Affirmative defense is somewhat irrelevant in Florida law because the way the SYG law is written, self defense must be disproved by the prosecutor if the SYG defense is invoked. It may be different here in OK but in Florida, this is not the case. [/QUOTE]
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