Study: Tesla car battery production releases as much CO2 as 8 years of driving on gas

[dennishoddy]

Subsidies are another discussion. I personally think Tesla is a snake oil salesman.

The OP is about the emissions from Tesla battery production compared to driving a combustion car for XX years. Cool.

If one wants to have an honest discussion about that, we must see the comparison of the CO2 emissions from the production of a comparable sized vehicle's internal combustion power plant side by side with that of Tesla's.

Better yet, compare the carbon footprint of the production of an entire Tesla to that of a comparable sedan or coupe.

We really can't honestly compare the carbon footprint of either can we.
It starts with mining the ore and drilling the crude to process chemicals, and fuel. Coal does play a big part in electric cars, although it's not the biggest now. Natural gas has outran it because of obama's war on coal, which has its own carbon footprint, and it progresses from that point.
Then we have to add in transportation to to the site after the product is manufactured, and so on. A lot of solar and wind products are built overseas, and shipped here, so we have to add the carbon footprint of the ships, and their fuel, as well as the trucking industry and trains.
Anybody that wants to say they can break all that down is just speculating and trying to prove a point. No way that can be compared apples to apples.
What we do know is the tax subsidies on ALL of the alternative energies like solar, wind, and electric cars batteries/cars can't make it on their own without the taxpayers money and have to survive on subsidies.
Meanwhile Who subsidizes anybody on the internal combustion side of things, again?

 

[tomthebaker]

Most car use is in cities, not in rural or suburban areas. My point wasn't to force everyone into the city, but rather to make cities more efficient for those that use, commute or live in cities.

Trains, buses, better infrastructure for alternative modes of transportation etc are all ways to make it more efficient.

NYC has it all. Subways, buses, you name it. And the air pollution is so bad, you can see it as you fly in like a brown bowl turned upside down over the metropolitan area.

 

[mugsy]

...Meanwhile Who subsidizes anybody on the internal combustion side of things, again?

Do the Chrysler or GM bailouts count?

I would not count tax abatements for building a plant since those are probably uniformly spread among any number of industries that could build a production facility. Also, to me allowing a company to keep more of what it earns is a far cry from providing a company direct subsidies which are an actual wealth transfer.

 

[dennishoddy]

Do the Chrysler or GM bailouts count?

I would not count tax abatements for building a plant since those are probably uniformly spread among any number of industries that could build a production facility. Also, to me allowing a company to keep more of what it earns is a far cry from providing a company direct subsidies which are an actual wealth transfer.

Well, keeping with the thread, I don't see how the bailouts are in the picture, although they were tax payer subsidies so I'm up for correction if that is the case.
Other internal combustion car companies did not require a bailout because of Union unfunded plans that precipitated the bailouts, so I'm thinking, maybe not?

 

[SMS]

Keeping with the OP. Subsidies aside. The article in the op is misleading and illustrates the use of media to create an image or reinforce a message.

It's an apples and oranges comparison without the equivalent numbers related to production of an engine (not to mention the motor oil required to run it).

 

[dennishoddy]

Keeping with the OP. Subsidies aside. The article in the op is misleading and illustrates the use of media to create an image or reinforce a message.

It's an apples and oranges comparison without the equivalent numbers related to production of an engine (not to mention the motor oil required to run it).

How so? The OP report calls out specific emission totals. Anybody that disagrees would have to produce some opposing numbers.

that battery manufacturing leads to high emissions.For each kilowatt-hour of storage capacity in the battery, emissions of 150 to 200 kilograms of carbon dioxide are generated in the factory. The researchers have not studied the individual car brand batteries, just how they were produced or what electrical mix they used. But to understand the importance of battery size, two standard electric cars on the market, Nissan Leaf and Tesla Model S, have batteries of approximately 30 kWh and 100 kWh respectively.

Even before you buy the car, CO2 emissions equivalent to 5.3 tons and 17.5 tons, respectively, gets produced. The numbers can be difficult to put in context. By way of comparison, a trip for a person returning from Stockholm to New York by air emits more than 600 kilograms of CO2, according to the UN organization ICAO’s calculation model.

Another conclusion of the study is that about half the emissions come from producing the raw materials and the other half from the battery factory. The mining accounts for only a small proportion of between 10-20 percent.

The calculation is based on the assumption that the electricity mix used by the battery factory consists of energy generated by more than 50% fossil fuels. In Sweden, the power production is mainly from fossil fuels, nuclear, and hydropower and why lower emissions had been achieved.

The study also concluded that emissions grow almost linearly with the size of the battery, even if it is pinched by the data in that field. It means that a battery of the Tesla-size contributes more than three times as much emissions as the Nissan Leaf size. It is a result that surprised Mia Romare.

 

[JD8]

God this place can get depressing........now we bash Telsa. Hope they put that roof tile into production... and I'd love to own one of their cars.

 

[Shadowrider]

I personally think Tesla is a snake oil salesman.

Agreed. But theirs cars would be total kickass if they had a twin turbo V6 in them!

 

[SMS]

How so? The OP report calls out specific emission totals. Anybody that disagrees would have to produce some opposing numbers.

How so? Really? I'm not saying his numbers are wrong, but that it's an incomplete comparison.

You don't see the big black hole in their data? So what if Tesla battery production creates a bunch of CO2? If it's production creates less CO2 than the production of an internal combustion engine and all of its unique components, the comparison in the op is not just useless, it's misleading.

But that's cool. Go with it.

 

[dennishoddy]

God this place can get depressing........now we bash Telsa. Hope they put that roof tile into production... and I'd love to own one of their cars.

They should be trashed as the biggest private subsidy in history to do nothing to contribute to anything but a cool electric car on my dime.