UBC alternative?

[n2sooners]

How about this for a trade off?

We have a UBC. Checks no longer require make, model, serial numbers or even confirmation that the sale was actually made. FFLs don't keep any information on private sales other than a receipt for the person who purchased the check. All information kept by the FFL must be destroyed after a certain period of time. Checks delayed longer than fifteen minutes are considered clear. You can keep your receipt and it is good for a month (or three).

Just a few ideas for a trade off. UBCs for streamlining the current system and making it harder for the government to abuse. I don't like UBCs, but I don't like the record keeping and information required in the current system either.

 

[338Shooter]

True. That is why I stopped leaving a gun in my car, and I put every gun in my house in my safe. The only gun not in a safe now, when not in use, is my EDC. I'm going to get one of those quickaccess safes for it too.


Yeah, I know I have the freedom now to choose to sell or not sell. But the question is what tools are available for me, as a private citizen, to gauge the likelihood that the buyer will turn around and use the gun for some form of gun violence. I'm not worried about things like self defense shootings or even if it gets sold a time or two more or stolen and ends up in the wrong hands. I just want to know that I don't sell a gun to a deranged lunatic that plans to march into Mcdonald's tomorrow and start unloading.

Put your guns on consignment at a gun shop. They'll do a BG check when they sell it.

 

[uncle money bags]

UBC does not guarantee a safe and risk free transaction. It does guarantee a data trail of who buys and sells firearms.

It really is just that simple.

 

[Buzzgun]

Frankos



I'd guess you wouldn't hand your car keys to a drunk, but would you feel responsible if you sold a car to someone who later gets drunk, drives it and kills someone??

By the same token, you wouldn't sell a firearm to a known criminal, and you shouldn't feel responsible if one you legally sold is later used by a criminal.

You are not responsible for, and cannot control what a criminal does.

It's time we, as gun owners, quit being defensive about how criminals misuse guns. We are NOT criminals and we are NOT responsible for what they do!!

 

[870WingBlaster]

You want to be responsible and check the person out. Are you going to ask them if they own a safe? Will you verify this? If you don't, then how do know that it won't be stolen and used for evil? What if their safe is comprimised? What if the person checks out but later has a break down? There is a point where the blame shouldn't fall on the seller, but blame should fall on the criminal who ends up with the weapon.

 

[gerhard1]

This UBC stuff is nothing but a red herring. They might be genuinely concerned about criminals, but what they are primarily concerned about is the fact that guns, when they are sold in a FTF or private transaction very often will disappear forever under the radar, and that is their main worry.

I have seen transactions taking place at gunshows quite often where perfect strangers buy and sell guns with no paperwork, and for cash. When this happens, the gun, as far as the government is concerned, is gone forever. Tracking the gun becomes nearly impossible and that is what they are trying to stop, not necessarily sales to criminals. Concern about criminals buying them is simply an excuse. The real worry is guns that have disappeared and that they have no idea where they are, and no means of tracing them, because the seller has no idea who the buyer was.

Again, THAT is what they are trying to stop. I hope they never succeed.

 

[BrandonMF]

Why should what YOU feel dictate how I conduct personal affairs? Why do we need UBC just because YOU are afraid you may sell a firearm to some lunatic?

If YOU are that afraid of what may happen, then simply stop selling firearms yourself and take them to, say, a gun shop and have them do it for you for a 10% fee with a background check. Because that's YOU, not me, and legislation is therefore not required.

As has been stated, son of a ***** shot his mom in her sleep and stole her guns. At what point would background checks helped there?

 

[Glocktogo]

Why should what YOU feel dictate how I conduct personal affairs? Why do we need UBC just because YOU are afraid you may sell a firearm to some lunatic?

If YOU are that afraid of what may happen, then simply stop selling firearms yourself and take them to, say, a gun shop and have them do it for you for a 10% fee with a background check. Because that's YOU, not me, and legislation is therefore not required.

As has been stated, son of a ***** shot his mom in her sleep and stole her guns. At what point would background checks helped there?

I didn't get that from the OP's post. I understood it to be asking what he can personally do to feel like he's selling only to good people. That of course is impossible to guarantee, but he can go through an FFL (I'd suggest that he pay for his peace of mind instead of requiring the buyer to pay the dealer fee), check someone on OSCN for felony convictions or mental adjudications, or accept a SDA permit as proof of good guy status.

UBC's are NOT the way to go because no matter how it's set up, someone is going to be wrongly denied their 2A rights and Due Process. The government is simply not capable of that level of care and concern for The People's 2A rights.

 

[abajaj11]

Okay, so there are lots of fears of the Anti's trying to take our guns one inch at a time. I get that this is the basic premise behind peoples fear of a UBC.

Prior to Newtown, I had sold several weapons to private buyers, all but one conducted via the classifieds on OSA. Newtown got me thinking about what I can do differently to help make sure I'm never in anyway responsible for something like Newtown. I got a little sick to my stomach when it occurred to me that any one of the guns I sold to folks I met via OSA could be used in gun violence. So that immediately led me to thinking a UBC was a good idea.

Now after reading a lot, I understand the logic of UBC leading to a gun registry. That is something I do FEAR cause I KNOW what is next. So, that leads me to thinking that a UBC law that strictly prohibits any gun registry is the ticket. But then again, many on here think that even that will ultimately lead to a Gun Registry... and in some sense I can agree... a little.

So, to prevent me from selling to the wrong person I plan to start checking for CCW permit. Problem with it is that it will exclude a large number of legal citizens from purchasing a gun from me. So my backup is to ask them to go through a 4473. I'll pay for the costs. This is currently my only other means of verifying they are a legal and sane individual.

Anyway, to my point, what alternative solutions do you of OSA propose that I (and others with similar views) can implement to make sure I don't sell a gun to the wrong person?

You can always go through an FFL when you sell the firearm. It's 10 or 20 dollars more. But you get a NICs check!

 

[pak-40]

Ask to see a DL.....to make sure they are of legal age to own a gun.
Ask if they can legally own a gun.

You have done your due diligence.