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The Range
Rifle & Shotgun Discussion
Which gas piston system for an AR
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<blockquote data-quote="english kanigit" data-source="post: 2521318" data-attributes="member: 4701"><p>The intent of what I posted was to get the OP thinking about the <em>why</em> behind the piston-operated AR systems that are out there. I should've stated as such but I was rushing a bit when I typed that.</p><p></p><p>Note the emphasis on the LWRC (and of course the Haach und Kaay) being designed as a <strong>system</strong>. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Mechanical harmony is not to be taken for granted.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Regarding retro kits:</p><p>I have little experience with them personally. Paying attention to people who quite literally shoot for a living and are more than willing to call a Spade has not extended to me many flattering things about such kits. </p><p></p><p>The problem with retro kits is that the manufacturer has little if any control what the purchaser is going to slap their kit onto, little idea if they will follow directions for a proper install and they can only hope that the gun getting a retrofit piston kit is in good working order and not already wore out or as functional as a bag of hammers from starting out as poor initial quality. From my research some piston systems seem to be better than others. </p><p></p><p>The 'AR-15' and it's direct-impingement gas system was designed a certain way for certain reasons. It's entire energy impulse is linear in relation to the bore and the stock; there is no reciprocating offset mass and certainly no design considerations built into the gun for this. When we add on piston retrofits of varying quality and then begin shooting the guns more than talking about them on the net we start to see issues. Things like carrier tilt, worn op-rod interfaces within the upper receiver, piston systems that may now be isolated under rails which need periodic maintenance/cleaning/parts replacement, loose nuts behind the trigger who think "I don't have to lube it. It's a PISTON!!1!"... These are problems that have been encountered and mitigated by the manufacturers that've put together reliable and reputable <strong>systems</strong> either in their testing or as the product matures during various manufacturing cycles. A lot of this stuff is left up to the kit installer to diagnose and then attempt to correct as they come across these issues. (Perfect example: <a href="http://primaryweapons.com/accessories/buffertubes/#.U4Vmnr-CjYo" target="_blank">The PWS Receiver Extension</a>. A well designed item for it's intended purpose but it is in essence a 'band-aid' solution...)</p><p></p><p>Can a piston retrofit kit work? Quite possibly, yes. I've seen more than a few that do. Most of those are owned by folks who think they're "The Bee's knees" and will enthusiastically tell you about their magical benefits... but they shoot two boxes of ammo a month. Tops. </p><p></p><p>I know folks who actually SHOOT that've had and been quite pleased with Adams Arms and the older PWS setups. More power to them. </p><p></p><p><strong>IF</strong> a piston is deemed to be a necessary feature by a shooter then they should be somewhat informed of the how's and the why's behind it. Info on the internet, mine included, is worth exactly what you paid for it. If anything it's a starting point to seeking your own conclusions.</p><p></p><p>Ek</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="english kanigit, post: 2521318, member: 4701"] The intent of what I posted was to get the OP thinking about the [I]why[/I] behind the piston-operated AR systems that are out there. I should've stated as such but I was rushing a bit when I typed that. Note the emphasis on the LWRC (and of course the Haach und Kaay) being designed as a [B]system[/B]. Mechanical harmony is not to be taken for granted. Regarding retro kits: I have little experience with them personally. Paying attention to people who quite literally shoot for a living and are more than willing to call a Spade has not extended to me many flattering things about such kits. The problem with retro kits is that the manufacturer has little if any control what the purchaser is going to slap their kit onto, little idea if they will follow directions for a proper install and they can only hope that the gun getting a retrofit piston kit is in good working order and not already wore out or as functional as a bag of hammers from starting out as poor initial quality. From my research some piston systems seem to be better than others. The 'AR-15' and it's direct-impingement gas system was designed a certain way for certain reasons. It's entire energy impulse is linear in relation to the bore and the stock; there is no reciprocating offset mass and certainly no design considerations built into the gun for this. When we add on piston retrofits of varying quality and then begin shooting the guns more than talking about them on the net we start to see issues. Things like carrier tilt, worn op-rod interfaces within the upper receiver, piston systems that may now be isolated under rails which need periodic maintenance/cleaning/parts replacement, loose nuts behind the trigger who think "I don't have to lube it. It's a PISTON!!1!"... These are problems that have been encountered and mitigated by the manufacturers that've put together reliable and reputable [B]systems[/B] either in their testing or as the product matures during various manufacturing cycles. A lot of this stuff is left up to the kit installer to diagnose and then attempt to correct as they come across these issues. (Perfect example: [URL=http://primaryweapons.com/accessories/buffertubes/#.U4Vmnr-CjYo]The PWS Receiver Extension[/URL]. A well designed item for it's intended purpose but it is in essence a 'band-aid' solution...) Can a piston retrofit kit work? Quite possibly, yes. I've seen more than a few that do. Most of those are owned by folks who think they're "The Bee's knees" and will enthusiastically tell you about their magical benefits... but they shoot two boxes of ammo a month. Tops. I know folks who actually SHOOT that've had and been quite pleased with Adams Arms and the older PWS setups. More power to them. [B]IF[/B] a piston is deemed to be a necessary feature by a shooter then they should be somewhat informed of the how's and the why's behind it. Info on the internet, mine included, is worth exactly what you paid for it. If anything it's a starting point to seeking your own conclusions. Ek [/QUOTE]
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