Yes, I'm going there!

[technetium-99m]

What exactly does the establishment clause of the first amendment mean to some of you guys?

 

[caojyn]

There are acts that are directly harmful to others, yes murder is a good example of this. Gay people being able to share their lives together the same way I do with my wife is an entirely different concept. I have a gay man as a close family friend, he has built a life with his partner for the last 40 years, and I believe that when he dies of Parkinson's that his partner should be able to make healthcare decisions for him and have access to their jointly earned worldly possessions. There is not one person on Earth that knows his wishes better than his partner and there is not one person who he would rather spend his last minutes with than his partner. My family will visit him as he gets sicker and my family will make sure his partner eats dinner after he dies. That's how you love your fellow people.

And no, he never tried to rape me. So lets stop the pedophile train before it starts.

exactly, Malum in se and Malum prohibitum
Evil because it's evil and evil because it's against the rules

 

[jonah7]

So the ancient Jews are Christians?

I'm not really sure what your point is. Is it that Christianity cannot speak to marriage because our religion started in the First Century AD and humans got married before that? Totally illogical. And wrong, Jesus talked about marriage and God's law in many places, relating it back to Adam and Eve, and the beginning. So as far as Jesus was concerned, God's law in regard to marriage has been the same all along.

 

[jonah7]

Now I understand the whole Taliban mentality.

Ah, yes, the "Reductio Ad Talibanum". The last refuge of those who can't be bothered to engage honestly with a topic.

 

[jonah7]

you cannot confuse or fully separate religion from social contract theory. Just because society has established that murdering one another is bad, that doesn't mean that it's based solely on word of a divine spirit. Humans need other humans and killing each other tends to have serious social consequences for those left living (as opposed to the spiritual issues faced by those deceased).

warning someone about a cliff is probably the moral thing to do, i'll grant you that, but why should you physically stop them from making that choice if they are only hurting themselves and they are perfectly aware that the cliff is there?

Well if you believe that we shouldn't bother stopping people from committing suicide, go ahead and say that.

And I don't believe in social contract theory, I believe that creation reflects God's character as the lawgiver.

 

[jonah7]

What exactly does the establishment clause of the first amendment mean to some of you guys?

It means that there will not be a "Church of the United States", as there is a "Church of England". Each state is free to establish its own laws regarding religious practice.

 

[caojyn]

Marriage does not "pre-date" Christianity because nothing does.

Is it that Christianity cannot speak to marriage because our religion started in the First Century AD and humans got married before that?

just so we're clear, the world is only 2013 1/2 years old?

 

[jonah7]

just so we're clear, the world is only 2013 1/2 years old?

What I'm saying is that it's a fallacy to state that Christianity began in 30 AD (that's about when Jesus was crucified). Christianity is a worldview that stretches from creation to now and beyond. It's not just "any old religion". It encompasses the totality of human history, as well as what comes after.

 

[caojyn]

Well if you believe that we shouldn't bother stopping people from committing suicide, go ahead and say that.

so how much force would you use to stop someone from committing suicide?

 

[jonah7]

so how much force would you use to stop someone from committing suicide?

I'd tackle them to the ground, if need be. Call the cops. Call the ambulance. Perform first aid or CPR.

But since the context of our discussion is really spiritual suicide, I'd preach the Gospel to them.