I suspect a great number of the online charter schools would.
I suspect a great number of the online charter schools would.
Help me understand how an adult student in flight of suspension for drug issues would be a candidate for a charter school to accept. If they did they deserve everything that would go with them. And for that matter the adult would deserve everything they would get from an online charter schools academic challenges
Those things are diploma factories.
That's my point. Any student could simply get in their car and leave when confronted over this issue. Not anything a school can do to stop them. They could then go get their GED or have their parents home school them.
I don't need to help you understand anything, as that was precisely my point.
Or charter or private schools. It's not like threat of suspension or flight of suspension is some permanent blackball or unconquerable obstacle.
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Henschman was responding to this specific post:
So henschman posted the relevant state statute to that specific case. That particular statute does not in fact say "unless you're a student enrolled there". Keep in mind that in order to even have the statute applicable means you are 21 years of age or more and have a SDA permit, not the 18-20 year olds you mention. If I as an adult drive onto the property of a school, tech center or college campus, I do not automatically waive my rights against illegal search and seizure as you so mistakenly assume. Now tell me again how he's wrong exactly?
I had MANY 18+yr olds that lived on what we called an affidavit of self support, ie they lived on their own with no parent involved. Those students were legally ADULTS. Now as an adult if we had just cause, ie a drug dog hit on your car, you refuse to open the car, we had the right to and did:
1. call local police
2. make the request again in their presence
3. if student would not open the car in officers presence
3. officer would arrest student on suspicion of drug possession and the car would be towed for inspection by the police.
end of story.
That is no different than if it happened on a public street. Deny a officer the right to search your car, he will impound the car, arrest you, and the police will then get a search warrant with just cause to search the auto.
I was asst Principal of Union High School, Principal of Skiatook H S., Asst Principal of Will Rogers HS , Asst Supt at Harrah, and Okmulgee.
You sir have a LOT to learn in life. You seem to let your bad ass emotions get the best of you on this subject. Do some research on this subject. Displaying your emotions on this subject does not serve you well. People that deal with such things and have the experience to draw from have much to offer you.
LOL, so tell me exactly how "Loco Parentus" (sic) works for you on a legal adult over the age of 18?
Foghorn already set you straight on LEO arrest authority in the State of Oklahoma, so I won't belabor the point. So let's discuss your authority as a school principle to detain a legal adult. You have none. If you are not commissioned as a law enforcement officer in the State of Oklahoma, any detention you attempt on a legal adult in order to exercise your "authority" over them would be grounds for arresting you. Now let's say you have a "drug" dog at your disposal. If it's not handled by a commissioned LEO, the responding LEO would still be required to develop RAS for a detention and consensual search, and PC for a search warrant and arrest. Without it, his case would be sunk before it ever started.
You rolled into this thread like the ultimate authority because I took exception to someone calling out someone else as wrong. He wasn't (IIRC, henschman is a licensed practicing attorney in the State of Oklahoma). Then you threw your weight around acting all billy-bad-ass about having the authority to simply have someone arrested because they violated a school policy (which you don't). I really not interested in what you managed to get away with as a principle throwing your weight around, I'm telling you what the law says.
As for "People that deal with such things and have the experience to draw from...", well, you're new here so you wouldn't understand. I happen to be one of those people. I carry dual credentials. One as a certified and commissioned law enforcement officer in the State of Oklahoma, the other as a credentialed Inspector in the U.S. Dept. of Homeland Security. I deal with laws and regulations every day. I have considerable training and experience in applying these laws and regulations, as well as the safeguarding of people's civil rights. Yet you have the nerve to tell me that I'm letting my emotions get the best of me? I'm simply correcting your ignorance of the law, sir. You might want to look at how many fingers are pointing back at you, as you sit there pointing at me.
Dude, you have an agenda and not interested in reality.
It would be pointless to debate someone who has an agenda. I merely attempted to point out the laws which are relevant to the topic.
You seem to still be pissed off at your school teachers and want to attack them whenever possible. I run into parents such as you all the time, I hope it makes them feel better to yell at me for their failures in life.
I do agree, any student at a high school can just walk away, but they have repercussions that go with the decision.
Next, there is a punishment in our country for refusing is not graduating from high school, getting GED, online charter schools, or having non-qualified parent try to home school a student; the punishment is called poverty, with males it goes hand in hand with prison and females, teenage pregnancies failed marriages, and their children continue that cycle.
In addition, let the drug dog hit on a car in, a school parking lot, see if the K9 cop or the school police let the kid/adult drive away, or if he is detained and his car impounded.
When a kid shows up at school, they can refuse to have their bag searched, but they will not be allowed in the school, without punitive action and the bag being searched.
If you wish to debate that refusing to let your car be searched is worth the price, go for it.
It would be pointless to debate someone who has an agenda. I merely attempted to point out the laws which are relevant to the topic.
You seem to still be pissed off at your school teachers and want to attack them whenever possible. I run into parents such as you all the time, I hope it makes them feel better to yell at me for their failures in life.
I do agree, any student at a high school can just walk away, but they have repercussions that go with the decision.
Next, there is a punishment in our country for refusing is not graduating from high school, getting GED, online charter schools, or having non-qualified parent try to home school a student; the punishment is called poverty, with males it goes hand in hand with prison and females, teenage pregnancies failed marriages, and their children continue that cycle.
In addition, let the drug dog hit on a car in, a school parking lot, see if the K9 cop or the school police let the kid/adult drive away, or if he is detained and his car impounded.
When a kid shows up at school, they can refuse to have their bag searched, but they will not be allowed in the school, without punitive action and the bag being searched.
If you wish to debate that refusing to let your car be searched is worth the price, go for it.
Henschman was responding to this specific post:
So henschman posted the relevant state statute to that specific case. That particular statute does not in fact say "unless you're a student enrolled there". Keep in mind that in order to even have the statute applicable means you are 21 years of age or more and have a SDA permit, not the 18-20 year olds you mention. If I as an adult drive onto the property of a school, tech center or college campus, I do not automatically waive my rights against illegal search and seizure as you so mistakenly assume. Now tell me again how he's wrong exactly?
LOL, so tell me exactly how "Loco Parentus" (sic) works for you on a legal adult over the age of 18?
Foghorn already set you straight on LEO arrest authority in the State of Oklahoma, so I won't belabor the point. So let's discuss your authority as a school principle to detain a legal adult. You have none. If you are not commissioned as a law enforcement officer in the State of Oklahoma, any detention you attempt on a legal adult in order to exercise your "authority" over them would be grounds for arresting you. Now let's say you have a "drug" dog at your disposal. If it's not handled by a commissioned LEO, the responding LEO would still be required to develop RAS for a detention and consensual search, and PC for a search warrant and arrest. Without it, his case would be sunk before it ever started.
You rolled into this thread like the ultimate authority because I took exception to someone calling out someone else as wrong. He wasn't (IIRC, henschman is a licensed practicing attorney in the State of Oklahoma). Then you threw your weight around acting all billy-bad-ass about having the authority to simply have someone arrested because they violated a school policy (which you don't). I really not interested in what you managed to get away with as a principle throwing your weight around, I'm telling you what the law says.
As for "People that deal with such things and have the experience to draw from...", well, you're new here so you wouldn't understand. I happen to be one of those people. I carry dual credentials. One as a certified and commissioned law enforcement officer in the State of Oklahoma, the other as a credentialed Inspector in the U.S. Dept. of Homeland Security. I deal with laws and regulations every day. I have considerable training and experience in applying these laws and regulations, as well as the safeguarding of people's civil rights. Yet you have the nerve to tell me that I'm letting my emotions get the best of me? I'm simply correcting your ignorance of the law, sir. You might want to look at how many fingers are pointing back at you, as you sit there pointing at me.
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Henschman was responding to this specific post:
So henschman posted the relevant state statute to that specific case. That particular statute does not in fact say "unless you're a student enrolled there". Keep in mind that in order to even have the statute applicable means you are 21 years of age or more and have a SDA permit, not the 18-20 year olds you mention. If I as an adult drive onto the property of a school, tech center or college campus, I do not automatically waive my rights against illegal search and seizure as you so mistakenly assume. Now tell me again how he's wrong exactly?
LOL, so tell me exactly how "Loco Parentus" (sic) works for you on a legal adult over the age of 18?
Foghorn already set you straight on LEO arrest authority in the State of Oklahoma, so I won't belabor the point. So let's discuss your authority as a school principle to detain a legal adult. You have none. If you are not commissioned as a law enforcement officer in the State of Oklahoma, any detention you attempt on a legal adult in order to exercise your "authority" over them would be grounds for arresting you. Now let's say you have a "drug" dog at your disposal. If it's not handled by a commissioned LEO, the responding LEO would still be required to develop RAS for a detention and consensual search, and PC for a search warrant and arrest. Without it, his case would be sunk before it ever started.
You rolled into this thread like the ultimate authority because I took exception to someone calling out someone else as wrong. He wasn't (IIRC, henschman is a licensed practicing attorney in the State of Oklahoma). Then you threw your weight around acting all billy-bad-ass about having the authority to simply have someone arrested because they violated a school policy (which you don't). I really not interested in what you managed to get away with as a principle throwing your weight around, I'm telling you what the law says.
As for "People that deal with such things and have the experience to draw from...", well, you're new here so you wouldn't understand. I happen to be one of those people. I carry dual credentials. One as a certified and commissioned law enforcement officer in the State of Oklahoma, the other as a credentialed Inspector in the U.S. Dept. of Homeland Security. I deal with laws and regulations every day. I have considerable training and experience in applying these laws and regulations, as well as the safeguarding of people's civil rights. Yet you have the nerve to tell me that I'm letting my emotions get the best of me? I'm simply correcting your ignorance of the law, sir. You might want to look at how many fingers are pointing back at you, as you sit there pointing at me.
Glock after reading all your posts it is obvious I have forgotten more about student rights that you sir will ever know. I stand by EVERY statement as 36 yrs of experience has served me well in the area. All you bring to the table is hoof and mouth disease. During those 36 yrs I NEVER had a single suspension of a student overturned. To the contrary one of my cases that went to district court in Osage County was up held by that court and set the presidence for schools today exercising their authority outside the school setting for suspension of students actions against teachers. My proof is in MY pudding sir. What you bring to the table is emotion and misguided thinking. That stuff is fallacy in its purist form.
You remind me of a few students I had over the years that were non conformists to the public school setting. Most of them while zealots in their thinking yet seldom were they ever contributors to a positive school setting. I always felt sorry for them because they made their own bed and had to sleep in it.
Glock I wish you nothing but the best. That said please do some research before attacking people with emotion rather than education and experience. I sir possess both. I made a difference in student lives at all education levels for 36 yrs. My reputation in the public school setting proves that.
Now what has not, up to now been discussed is what does school suspension mean? Every student with a suspension equal to or in excess of 10 school days has the right to spend it in an state approved In School Suspension program. This provides the district and the student to continue their education while serving their suspension. This setting has criteria that must meet state mandates. Many, many students with semester and or semester plus additional time have completed their education and graduated while completing this time. That is in fact, the impetus for placing students under suspension in such a setting. They need and the law requires a setting for them to continue their education. I cannot recall a student that was placed under an extended suspension refusing IHS. Im sure some have but not under my watch. Some did not complete it successfully but all were offered and accepted it in the beginning.
Oh Glock it is Principal not principle!
Giggle snort.
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