Israel going in?

[Billybob]

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/gove...cle_4bcfb587-033c-5d85-8317-e2853303b1b2.html

"has the right to do more than defend itself"
So, we need the government leading our children in prayer, and foreign policy dictated by religion.
Sounds kinda familiar.

Lot of people would probably like that, just so it's the right religion.

 

[uncle money bags]

Jews as individuals have a right to exist and did so for years while living abroad as people of many religions do. Freedom of religion or non-religion are basic human rights. Israel demands to be recognized as a "Jewish state", which means all non-Jews in Israel will eventually become targets persecution.

The nation state of Isarel came into existence with a pen. It has no right to exist. No nation has a "right" to exist.

The USgov is guilty of genocide of Palestinians by helping arm Israel: http://www.businessinsider.com/us-provides-ammunition-israel-attack-un-school-2014-7

The USgov is us (in theory). Those in the USgov who support Israel should be tried for war crimes which includes a vast majority of Dems and Repugs.

Yes Dutch, we all know you despise the Tribe, and seems to have colored your response to the point of absurdity. Arent you a Canadian citizen/subject? Do you have an issue with the Canadian government touting their defense relationship right on the front of the national government's web site? Doesnt that make you complicit in the same way citizens of America are by your definition?

Genocide? I think you are smart enough to know what that word means, so i can only surmise that you think we are too stupid to understand its definition.

Further, most nations "came into existence" with a pen; sometimes after war. The rest just skipped the whole "pen" part and relied on force through local movements or imperialism. Seriously dude, I am enjoying the conversation so far considering the diverse opinions and relative mutual understanding resulting in civil, adult debate. Empathy; as a friend of mine on this forum recently reminded me, is essential to understanding. Until you can approach the issue without your prejudices then you are not helping.

 

[Lurker66]

Yes Dutch, we all know you despise the Tribe, and seems to have colored your response to the point of absurdity. Arent you a Canadian citizen/subject? Do you have an issue with the Canadian government touting their defense relationship right on the front of the national government's web site? Doesnt that make you complicit in the same way citizens of America are by your definition?

Genocide? I think you are smart enough to know what that word means, so i can only surmise that you think we are too stupid to understand its definition.

Further, most nations "came into existence" with a pen; sometimes after war. The rest just skipped the whole "pen" part and relied on force through local movements or imperialism. Seriously dude, I am enjoying the conversation so far considering the diverse opinions and relative mutual understanding resulting in civil, adult debate. Empathy; as a friend of mine on this forum recently reminded me, is essential to understanding. Until you can approach the issue without your prejudices then you are not helping.

Careful with that empathy and understanding thing, itll get ya labeled and painted into a corner.

 

[uncle money bags]

The real irony there, is that in realty it keeps you from being painted into a corner.

 

[Lurker66]

I see Israel bombed the University. Let me guess. Hamas had a tunnel.close by. Hamas was using students as human sheilds. The leader of Hamas was teaching a class. The missing soldier was reported in the area. It wasnt a University, it was being used to store rockets and a launch site. Or it wasnt bombed by Israel, rather it was a errant rocket intended to hit a Israeli University.

 

[SMS]

Having seen first hand how "they" use schools, hospitals and mosques....I bet all of the above. Especially storage of weapons/ordnance.

What's wrong with bombing a university if your enemy, an enemy that has declared your annihilation as one of it's primary goals, is using it for military purposes? Do universities hold some special status?

 

[uncle money bags]

Could have been any of the above. I read a story last night about a mentally ill Palestinian man who was chained to the wall of a compound only to be rescued by Israeli soldiers before he became another statistic in the propaganda war. Or that the story is a part of the propaganda war.
Certain facts we will never know by virtue of our distance from the fighting. What we do know is this situation seems untenable by virtue of neither side being able to make sacrifices necessary to peace. Neither side trusts the other enough, and both have legitimate reasons for feeling that way.
There really is nothing Israel could do, short of its total destruction, which will placate organizations who profess a need to exterminate unbelievers. So where does that leave Israel and the people of Gaza/ west bank who just want to live their lives?
One or the other must win the battle, decisively, or there must be a fundamental transformation of radical attitudes. Im not placing bets on the latter.

 

[SMS]

There really is nothing Israel could do, short of its total destruction, which will placate organizations who profess a need to exterminate unbelievers. So where does that leave Israel and the people of Gaza/ west bank who just want to live their lives?
One or the other must win the battle, decisively, or there must be a fundamental transformation of radical attitudes. Im not placing bets on the latter.

This.

I totally get Daniel's point about supporting "freedom fighters" and the opposition, but in this case, Hamas doesn't get the benefit of doubt from me. Their stated goal is the extermination of a people and a nation and I'm willing to bet they wouldn't stop there if they got their wish.

One side is willing to live in peace and work with the other if their security needs are met, the other side isn't...it's pretty clear.

 

[Lurker66]

These battles between Israel/hamas/PLO/Hezbollah ect follows a typical pattern. It usually ends and Israel expands its "safe zone", then they build a few more homes/apartments/farms, thus slowly squeezing the Palistinians even more.

Let us not forget that there are about 7 million more Palastinians in Jordan, Lebanon, Syria that were forced out of the area. They live as refugees abroad. They are not allowed by Israel to move back.

 

[aeropb]

they should shoot them all