12 Gauge Birdshot Gel Testing

[Moparman485]

My granddad was the big poobah in the ER at Hillcrest eons ago. He had said that birdshot up close was the worst thing to try and repair. According to him you basically had to hope that you could pull the edges together because there wasn’t any middle. Probably really close like was mentioned before the shot charge begins to separate from the wad and it’s essentially a frangible round.

Yeah. My aunt worked a lot of trauma ER stuff and said the same. Close up, it’s basically a massive glazer safety slug with a thousand little wound channels. But it spills off its energy/penetration very rapidly as expected

 

[KroyWen]

Thanks for sharing your experimental results w us.

 

[Entropicitis]

Interesting stuff!

 

[RickN]

My favorite shotgun defense load was always duplex loads. Preferably buck shot "buffered" with #4 shot.

 

[PBramble]

Have you tried cut shells? I wonder what the difference would be.

 

[Moparman485]

Have you tried cut shells? I wonder what the difference would be.

I have not tried cut shells. Although I would imagine they would perform a lot like a slug, but with more fragments left behind. But again I have never tried them myself n

 

[Meadhall Range]

I notice that you didn't provide distance from target or I didn't see it for the gel results. I would also ask what you are considering a "good pattern" at 10 and 25. One other note is if you are doing gel testing where possible get real gel instead of the home made stuff, the properties are different. You might also utilize 2-4 layers of something like denim in front of the gel to account for "clothing".

For the most part birdshot has way too much spread and lack of energy on a human at anything past 6 yards. #4 is Certainly better than birdshot at is what I (and others) would consider the BARE minimum for a self defense load. I personally prefer 00 8 pellet Flite Control for bloody good reason. Out of my mossy at 25 yards with flite control I get a pattern about the size of a double fist. I know where every single pellet goes and it is massively effective all the way out to 25.

My issue with #4 is that is a lot of pellets flying at any distance and even if it is buffered that is a Very high chance of a flyer(s). I want Every single pellet landing on whatever my target is because every one that doesn't you are responsible for. As soon as shot pellets come out of the cup/wad most loads start banging pellets against each other which can give you flyers. Even with 9 pellet flite control you can get a 9th pellet flyer, it is 99% of the time still on the target but it isn't usually grouped with the rest. That is a chance at a flyer off target if your POI/POA is off.

Now...having said that people need to pattern their gauge with the ammo they are going to use so they KNOW what that pattern is. Patterns can change from gun to gun and even between different lots of ammo. Some barrels/guns really prefer certain ammo and get better patterns with it. KNOWING that pattern is important.

As to using cut shells...please don't do that around me...Ever. That is a good way to end up with an overpressure situation in your gauge and blow it, and you, to hell. For those that like that kind of thing, hey good luck, but there has been a Lot of testing done on that myth...and all of it says it is dangerous to the user.

That was essentially the point of my test was “home defense” type situation. I had for years heard people say that birdshot was best for (insert reason) here, and, realistically, at very close (closer than 10yds) I am positive it is lethal due to basically still being in the shot cup and functioning like a fragmenting slug. However, I couldn’t find any testing on a “home defense” distance test for the same.

A constant concern with using a 12ga, and having neighbors with kids on every side of my house, is over penetration and a stray round or rounds making its way to them.

So, after doing this testing, I agree, the #4 (particularly this load) gives good patterns at 10 and 25yds (even in a smooth cylinder bore), has recoil a slight more than a standard 7.5 dove round (but nowhere near as bad as a turkey load), gives effective penetration, and will definitely be less likely to penetrate the wall and become a threat to someone (aside from the intended target). So now, my home defense 12ga will be loaded with #4s.

Of course, I wouldn’t want to be shot with anything, let alone a shotgun, but I believe the #4 to be more effective at stopping a threat than a 7.5/8, and less risky to bystanders than a slug or buckshot.

 

[Meadhall Range]

@Moparman485 Having said that...be careful....but at least you are getting out there and looking at some of this and that is more than a lot of folks do.

 

[Moparman485]

I notice that you didn't provide distance from target or I didn't see it for the gel results. I would also ask what you are considering a "good pattern" at 10 and 25. One other note is if you are doing gel testing where possible get real gel instead of the home made stuff, the properties are different. You might also utilize 2-4 layers of something like denim in front of the gel to account for "clothing".

For the most part birdshot has way too much spread and lack of energy on a human at anything past 6 yards. #4 is Certainly better than birdshot at is what I (and others) would consider the BARE minimum for a self defense load. I personally prefer 00 8 pellet Flite Control for bloody good reason. Out of my mossy at 25 yards with flite control I get a pattern about the size of a double fist. I know where every single pellet goes and it is massively effective all the way out to 25.

My issue with #4 is that is a lot of pellets flying at any distance and even if it is buffered that is a Very high chance of a flyer(s). I want Every single pellet landing on whatever my target is because every one that doesn't you are responsible for. As soon as shot pellets come out of the cup/wad most loads start banging pellets against each other which can give you flyers. Even with 9 pellet flite control you can get a 9th pellet flyer, it is 99% of the time still on the target but it isn't usually grouped with the rest. That is a chance at a flyer off target if your POI/POA is off.

Now...having said that people need to pattern their gauge with the ammo they are going to use so they KNOW what that pattern is. Patterns can change from gun to gun and even between different lots of ammo. Some barrels/guns really prefer certain ammo and get better patterns with it. KNOWING that pattern is important.

As to using cut shells...please don't do that around me...Ever. That is a good way to end up with an overpressure situation in your gauge and blow it, and you, to hell. For those that like that kind of thing, hey good luck, but there has been a Lot of testing done on that myth...and all of it says it is dangerous to the user.

I thought I had included it, but I see I was mistaken. The distance from muzzle to gel was 10yds. I also calibrated the gel using the same method as they calibrate the commercial stuff. However, if someone wants to spend the comically high price of commercial stuff, then I will happily do testing with it. But at $40 a block for home made, and well in excess of $100 for commercial, I was happy to keep it in double digit costs. Particularly considering how much of the gel was vaporized with single projectile testing (especially with the magnum rifle rounds haha). I have chosen the #4, as there likely is no situation within my home we’re I will have a single shot distance of greater than 10yds, due to hallways/etc, and 100% of the #4 pellets struck a target with a width of about 14 inches (much smaller than your average torso). Plus,
If I am going to be engaging threats in the open or at greater distances, the 12ga is not the tool I would grab. Of course every bit of data can be interpreted differently by differing learned minds . And any load is always going to be better than a pointy stick! Haha

 

[Moparman485]

I notice that you didn't provide distance from target or I didn't see it for the gel results. I would also ask what you are considering a "good pattern" at 10 and 25. One other note is if you are doing gel testing where possible get real gel instead of the home made stuff, the properties are different. You might also utilize 2-4 layers of something like denim in front of the gel to account for "clothing".

For the most part birdshot has way too much spread and lack of energy on a human at anything past 6 yards. #4 is Certainly better than birdshot at is what I (and others) would consider the BARE minimum for a self defense load. I personally prefer 00 8 pellet Flite Control for bloody good reason. Out of my mossy at 25 yards with flite control I get a pattern about the size of a double fist. I know where every single pellet goes and it is massively effective all the way out to 25.

My issue with #4 is that is a lot of pellets flying at any distance and even if it is buffered that is a Very high chance of a flyer(s). I want Every single pellet landing on whatever my target is because every one that doesn't you are responsible for. As soon as shot pellets come out of the cup/wad most loads start banging pellets against each other which can give you flyers. Even with 9 pellet flite control you can get a 9th pellet flyer, it is 99% of the time still on the target but it isn't usually grouped with the rest. That is a chance at a flyer off target if your POI/POA is off.

Now...having said that people need to pattern their gauge with the ammo they are going to use so they KNOW what that pattern is. Patterns can change from gun to gun and even between different lots of ammo. Some barrels/guns really prefer certain ammo and get better patterns with it. KNOWING that pattern is important.

As to using cut shells...please don't do that around me...Ever. That is a good way to end up with an overpressure situation in your gauge and blow it, and you, to hell. For those that like that kind of thing, hey good luck, but there has been a Lot of testing done on that myth...and all of it says it is dangerous to the user.

And I do agree, my personal “go to” buckshot is now federal flite control (although I preferred the 9 shot tactical version as it had a little better performance in my guns, but the 8 shot was phenomenal too), and, oddly enough, the Aguila mini slugs. They feed like butter in my 320 (win1300 clone) and grouped just as good as the high end federal. Based upon their grouping and kinetic energy, they are more than sufficient for hog hunting or “long pig” defense situations. Now for deer, I would not use Aguila and woudl jump to the black aces tactical high velocity slugs. They have the same POI as the Aguila to 50yds, but hit with much more kinetic energy and just a touch more accurate. So if I decide To carry a 12 in the deer woods (for whatever reason) it’s black aces tactical, but for hogs it’s Aguila mini slugs, fed flite control buckshot, and black aces slugs.