1911 Conditions Of Readiness

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Conditions of readiness

  • Condition 0 - A round is in the chamber, hammer is cocked, and the safety is off.

    Votes: 3 3.2%
  • Condition 1 - Cocked & Locked. Round chambered, hammered cocked, thumb safety on.

    Votes: 87 91.6%
  • Condition 2 - A round is in the chamber and the hammer is down.

    Votes: 5 5.3%
  • Condition 3 - The chamber is empty and hammer is down with a charged magazine in the gun.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Condition 4 - The chamber is empty, hammer is down and no magazine is in the gun.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    95
  • Poll closed .

ldp4570

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Splain to me how it's gonna go off with two physical safeties (grip and trigger guard cover), in addition to a trained brain? Heck, if it's safer and better with 3 physical safety apparatuses rather than 2, then why stop there? Surely it's even better with 4 or 5 or 6 physical safeties, right? Condition 15 is the only way to go. Anyone who answers other than condition 15 needs to switch to another platform - this involves adding 14 additional physical safeties to the gun after you get it from the factory.

John Moses didn't have a manual safety on the original design:

http://forums.officer.com/forums/showthread.php?144283-Original-1911-Without-Thumb-Safety!

But of course, tradition and inertia trump truth, logic, and common sense every time, so carry on with your bad selves. :)

Nothing at all wrong with condition 1 - if you're trained on it, but also nothing at all wrong with condition zero - again, if you're trained on it. It's all about the training. In fact, I'll give $1,000 to anyone on this forum or anyone in the world for that matter who can take a 1911, secured snugly in a good holster, with manual disengaged (with maintained/ working grip safety spring), who can make it go off by dropping it or throwing it as hard as you want at any ground, wall or object you want, at any angle you want - who wants to take me up on this and prove me wrong? C'mon, show me how unsafe it is, and how cuuuuuuh--RAAAZZZY it is to say that carrying condition zero is just ya know, cuh-raaazzzy! Instead of just ad hominum, surely somebody can back up this claim I hear all the time with ya know, actual facts? Too bad Browning himself isn't alive, so we can tell him how stupid and crazy HE is, too! :P

Wait, I'll save ya some typing: "Well, no, you're just an idgit, that's all there is to it. Cocked N Locked, Cooper is God, Semper Fi, yada yada - don't need no stinkin facts!". You're welcome. :D

Dang Man!! I was just josh'in with ya!!!!! Come on over and I'll give ya a double Glenlivet 25 on the rocks, and we can chat some!
 

Glocktogo

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Splain to me how it's gonna go off with two physical safeties (grip and trigger guard cover), in addition to a trained brain? Heck, if it's safer and better with 3 physical safety apparatuses rather than 2, then why stop there? Surely it's even better with 4 or 5 or 6 physical safeties, right? Condition 15 is the only way to go. Anyone who answers other than condition 15 needs to switch to another platform - this involves adding 14 additional physical safeties to the gun after you get it from the factory.

John Moses didn't have a manual safety on the original design:

http://forums.officer.com/forums/showthread.php?144283-Original-1911-Without-Thumb-Safety!

But of course, tradition and inertia trump truth, logic, and common sense every time, so carry on with your bad selves. :)

Nothing at all wrong with condition 1 - if you're trained on it, but also nothing at all wrong with condition zero - again, if you're trained on it. It's all about the training. In fact, I'll give $1,000 to anyone on this forum or anyone in the world for that matter who can take a 1911, secured snugly in a good holster, with manual disengaged (with maintained/ working grip safety spring), who can make it go off by dropping it or throwing it as hard as you want at any ground, wall or object you want, at any angle you want - who wants to take me up on this and prove me wrong? C'mon, show me how unsafe it is, and how cuuuuuuh--RAAAZZZY it is to say that carrying condition zero is just ya know, cuh-raaazzzy! Instead of just ad hominum, surely somebody can back up this claim I hear all the time with ya know, actual facts? Too bad Browning himself isn't alive, so we can tell him how stupid and crazy HE is, too! :P

Wait, I'll save ya some typing: "Well, no, you're just an idgit, that's all there is to it. Cocked N Locked, Cooper is God, Semper Fi, yada yada - don't need no stinkin facts!". You're welcome. :D

Having spent a fair amount of time officiating on the range, I can't tell you the number of shooters with old slabsides whose trigger pull went from 5# to 25#+, just because they didn't get that safety quite all the way off when they drew. This from people who'd trained to swipe it off on the draw. Now that safety has a way of going on when it's off and off when it's on. If you're planning on it already being off when you draw and it's on, how long do you think it will take under pressure for you to realize the problem and correct it?

There's a reason most of my carry pistols have no external manual safeties.
 

KurtM

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Well not to be a jerk here, but If you are taught "propperly" you always keep your thumb on top of the safety! You might "swipe it back on! after your "interpersonal conflict management" but as soon as the safety is put back on...you thumb goes right back on top! At no time should your thumb be anywhere but on top of the safety!!! How do I know??? I taught at Orange Gun Site for 3 years under Col. Cooper...the Mesiah, not the God! KurtM
 

Glocktogo

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Well not to be a jerk here, but If you are taught "propperly" you always keep your thumb on top of the safety! You might "swipe it back on! after your "interpersonal conflict management" but as soon as the safety is put back on...you thumb goes right back on top! At no time should your thumb be anywhere but on top of the safety!!! How do I know??? I taught at Orange Gun Site for 3 years under Col. Cooper...the Mesiah, not the God! KurtM

Agreed, but depending on hand shape/size and correctness of grip, that can introduce another undesirable variable, failing to fully engage the grip safety. I've seen lots of those failures take several seconds to sort out on the clock as well. I ran a Wilson 1911 for a full year and never had either of these issues crop up, but I saw lots of occurrences in that time frame with other 1911 users.
 

ExSniper

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Agreed, but depending on hand shape/size and correctness of grip, that can introduce another undesirable variable, failing to fully engage the grip safety. I've seen lots of those failures take several seconds to sort out on the clock as well. I ran a Wilson 1911 for a full year and never had either of these issues crop up, but I saw lots of occurrences in that time frame with other 1911 users.[/QUOTE]

I agree with you, but the point is it is an OPERATOR ERROR, not a problem with the system.
 

Glocktogo

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Agreed, but depending on hand shape/size and correctness of grip, that can introduce another undesirable variable, failing to fully engage the grip safety. I've seen lots of those failures take several seconds to sort out on the clock as well. I ran a Wilson 1911 for a full year and never had either of these issues crop up, but I saw lots of occurrences in that time frame with other 1911 users.[/QUOTE]

I agree with you, but the point is it is an OPERATOR ERROR, not a problem with the system.

While the difference is valid, it's entirely irrelevant to the person experiencing it on the clock or in a self-defense situation. :nolike:
 

KurtM

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Little known Gun Site tidbit for you all....and in answer to Glocktogo's point......which is very valid. Cooper was a proponent of pinning or blocking grip safeties, if they "got in your way". His point was the latest Browning design the P-35/Hi-Power had done away with this feature and he considered it to be an archaic nebulus part harkening back to mounted cavalry requierments. KurtM
 

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