.54 Cal black powder sabots and bullets

[tschwarz]

Disclaimer: I'm a black powder newb.

My uncle and I were going to go black powder hunting this season. He has experience, I do not. He bought me some .54 cal sabots that hold .45 cal hollow point (I think) bullets. The package is labeled Hornady. The barrel of the black powder rifle I bought about 10 years ago is clearly labeled .54 cal. I have never shot this gun.

The issue is that the sabot feels entirely too lose when you start it in the barrel. I did not try it, but I am nearly certain it would simply free fall through the barrel. I understand that they make larger caliber sabots that are meant to use smaller caliber bullets, but this sabot is noticeably smaller in diameter than the barrel.

So the first question is fairly simple, am I just missing something obvious here?

Does anyone know where one can pick up .54 cal sabots / bullets locally? I'm concerned I will not have enough time for them to be delivered if I order them online, but am willing to give that route a try as well if someone can suggest a good source.

Thanks,
Tom

 

[Rod Snell]

So the first question is fairly simple, am I just missing something obvious here?

90% of shooting a blackpowder muzzle loader is knowing how to load it, and you leave me with an uneasy feeling about your knowledge and experience level. If you were closer to Altus, we could take your rig to the range and sort it out. I don't shoot .54, but I have used Hornady sabots in other calibers. I prefer .45 with Power belts for Oklahoma's small-bodied deer among the "modern" designs (I've shot most deer with roundball in an old traditional Hawken).
You seriously need to get with a mentor and shoot your smokepole several sessions before hunting with it. In an unfired, unlubed bore, sabots can be pushed in with your fingers, typically. I'd load it with about a 70% charge and see where the bullet hits. Fire a cap in your empty gun before loading and make sure the flash hole is open, or you may find out what the bullet puller is for.

Added: The rifling twist in your barrel is critically important to what type of ammunition you can use effectively. Old-style 48 inch twist barrels are made for roundballs and don't do well with bullets and sabots. Most inlines are 24 inch twist and shoot well with the power belt bullets. I have a .50 with 36 inch twist that I use with sabots, but frankly that gun is only acceptable at best. Put the wrong ammunition in a twist not suitable for it, and you get a case of CHS (can't hit stuff).

 

[338Shooter]

Holler at me man and I'll show you the ropes.

 

[tschwarz]

Thanks for your reply.

You're right about my experience level. I'm relying entirely on what my uncle has told me. It is not that I can push the sabot in with my fingers, rather there is a visible gap between the sabot and the wall of the barrel. The confusing part was that I opened the original package the sabots / bullets came in, and it definitely says .54 cal on the packaging.

It sounds like it would be best for me to take it in and have it looked over by someone who knows more about what they are doing, prior to taking further steps on my own.

I'll revise my question - does anyone know who might carry .54 cal sabots locally and be knowledgeable regarding black power rifles in general? I already purchased my tags and am concerned I will miss the season if I order online.

Tom

 

[tschwarz]

Holler at me man and I'll show you the ropes.

Thanks Dustin - you're always coming to the rescue. I will be in touch.

 

[mr ed]

you are trying to put the sabot and bullet in together as 1 unit? not one at a time?

 

[tschwarz]

Ed,
Thank you for the response. Fortunately, I am not a complete dolt. I am not trying to load the sabot and bullet independently, rather they are as a single unit.

I sent the following information to Dustin. Perhaps this will give folks a better idea of the current situation.

--

I'm working with a .54 cal Thompson Center 'Grey Hawk'. The rifling is 1:48 RH. I bought the gun about 10 years ago off of an acquaintance who needed a few extra dollars at the time. I have never personally shot this gun, and it has been stored with my uncle's rifles at his house. Here is a photo of the gun http://dl.dropbox.com/u/17814523/grey_hawk_54cal.jpg

He says he picked up the sabot / bullet package at Gene Sears' shop. I described them improperly in the post. They are actually Nosler (part# 54250) - 10 pack .54 Cal / 250 grain (.451" diameter projectile).
Here's a photo of those http://dl.dropbox.com/u/17814523/nos...al_bullets.jpg

I interpret that package to mean the sabot is for a 54 cal rifle and it holds a 45 cal projectile. Simple enough. The back lists the minimum twist at 1:48 and recommends a 1:36 for best results - fine.

After examining the gun again, I think I may have found the reason why I'm seeing a gap between the sabot and the wall of the barrel (you may be able to make it out here: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/17814523/fordustin.jpg) The rifling ends approx 1" from the muzzle. I don't have a ball puller else I'd probably be more adventurous in my investigation.

I would welcome your thoughts. Also, do you know if H&H carries supplies?

 

[oneof79]

Ed,
Thank you for the response. Fortunately, I am not a complete dolt. I am not trying to load the sabot and bullet independently, rather they are as a single unit.

I sent the following information to Dustin. Perhaps this will give folks a better idea of the current situation.

--

I'm working with a .54 cal Thompson Center 'Grey Hawk'. The rifling is 1:48 RH. I bought the gun about 10 years ago off of an acquaintance who needed a few extra dollars at the time. I have never personally shot this gun, and it has been stored with my uncle's rifles at his house. Here is a photo of the gun http://dl.dropbox.com/u/17814523/grey_hawk_54cal.jpg

He says he picked up the sabot / bullet package at Gene Sears' shop. I described them improperly in the post. They are actually Nosler (part# 54250) - 10 pack .54 Cal / 250 grain (.451" diameter projectile).
Here's a photo of those http://dl.dropbox.com/u/17814523/nos...al_bullets.jpg

I interpret that package to mean the sabot is for a 54 cal rifle and it holds a 45 cal projectile. Simple enough. The back lists the minimum twist at 1:48 and recommends a 1:36 for best results - fine.

After examining the gun again, I think I may have found the reason why I'm seeing a gap between the sabot and the wall of the barrel (you may be able to make it out here: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/17814523/fordustin.jpg) The rifling ends approx 1" from the muzzle. I don't have a ball puller else I'd probably be more adventurous in my investigation.

I would welcome your thoughts. Also, do you know if H&H carries supplies?

Now that you have solved the problem I remember that my Encore is the same way. The very end of the barrel is made that way to help get a sabot started.

 

[338Shooter]

H&H has supplies, but they are pretty high and they have a limited selection. I get all my BP stuff from Gene Sears in El Reno. You can check their selection on their website. On my encore 209x50 even the starting zone at the muzzle is still tight enough to hug the sabot. You can push it in with your hands, but it doesn't just drop in. If it was an inline M/L you could just push in and see then push it out. I'd like to take a look at the rifle and the sabots you're using.

 

[bigcountryok]

With that rifle I would recommend that you use conical bullets rather than sabots. OAS had a decent selection of 54cal bullets left when I was there last week (buffalo, maxi ball, and powerbelts)

My 50cal TC White Mountain Carbine loves the 405gr Powerbelts.