No, they are 0% forgings. So, basic shape. everything else I milled.
No, they are 0% forgings. So, basic shape. everything else I milled.
Not going to do your leg work. It's legal to sell a homemade lower as long you serialized it before sale and didn't create it with the intent to sell it.
What makes you think you'll have to fight the ATF? Do you have an example of the ATF busting someone that wasn't in the business of selling firearms? It's the same thing as having a C&R and selling off guns you no longer want.
Last edited:
You just made my point. as long as you serialize it - read my post again. I said one of the advantages was having a non-serialized lower. So, if its not serialized you can't sell it. right?
My point stands. you can't sell an unserialized, home milled lower. I'm not real sure what part of what I posted is incorrect.
And no, I have no examples of the ATF busting a person based on an 80% lower - oh, except for the whole mess with Ares Arms right now. That may very well be proof that they are starting to tighten the screws, but it may not. The risk is way too high for the rewards, IMHO.
I think the problem with the Ares stuff was the lower in question, the part that is to be removed is a different color plastic, the way the ATF is looking at it is if the lower was completely milled and then the "cavity" where the trigger and all is supposed to be was then filled it was a firearm first that was rendered slightly inoperable. However if the plug was made first and then the rest was injection molded around it then it was not a firearm. All a technicality that the great and powerful ATF is hung up on.
But if you do sell a lower you milled you begin walking the same fine line and the great and powerful ATF will likely say to sell it you must put a serial number on it and to do so you must have a ffl07. I don't believe I would want to begin walking in those waters with the current administration.
But if you do sell a lower you milled you begin walking the same fine line and the great and powerful ATF will likely say to sell it you must put a serial number on it and to do so you must have a ffl07. I don't believe I would want to begin walking in those waters with the current administration.
A C&R FFL holder can sell to upgrade or improve their collection. Not be in the business of buying and selling.
I wish somebody would make one with the trigger group area done, but not the magazine well. I'd like to do my own for a 9mm and remove the odd, leftover material at the front of the well area. I thought about doing it to a finished receiver and adding a little block to fill the gap, but that won't fly because all of the ones in my price range put the damned numbers there.
And FWIW, the DIY factor is pretty awesome. Not so much as a "look what I can do" as much as a "I wonder if I can do that." Here is a black powder cartridge conversion I did many moons ago to shoot 38 Long Colt. It shot fine until some moron (me) decided to try light smokeless powder loads. Ooops.
And FWIW, the DIY factor is pretty awesome. Not so much as a "look what I can do" as much as a "I wonder if I can do that." Here is a black powder cartridge conversion I did many moons ago to shoot 38 Long Colt. It shot fine until some moron (me) decided to try light smokeless powder loads. Ooops.
Just for the sake of argument, let's say a person finishes an unserialized lower, then kicks the bucket unexpectedly. What can the heirs do with the unserialized lower? Would they have to surrender it to the ATF?
So, let's say you bought a paper weight, and then no longer had possession of it. How does the ATF prove you didn't throw it out in the trash, I mean, it IS just a paper weight.
Read it again. You mention what the appeal of having homemade is, then that you can never sell it. You can sell it IF you add a serial number. Which doesn't put it on the radar either. I'm not sure about OK but many states don't require any paperwork when transferring long guns. If I sell you a homemade lower that I only recently serialized it still can't be confiscated. Adding a serial number doesn't magically make it appear on ATF documents.
Or to downgrade their collection. IE sell a gun they no longer want.
The C&R statement went with the sentence before it.
I think we are talking about the same thing here, just coming at it form different directions. The advantage I mention is that it's not serialized and therefore traceable. That same lack of feature makes it unsellable, being unsellable isn't a desireable feature, it was a side-effect of the lack of serialization (and makers information and city and state)
As soon as you put a serial number on it, it's just another long gun. No, it doesn't magically appear on some list. I think we are all reasoable adults and realize that can't happen. however, if you sell it through an FFL to someone else. Or you pawn it, that serial number ends up in the atf database. ergo, the anonymity of a home-milled lower is lost.
the spirit of the C&R is to allow a collector of curios and relics to manipulate their own collection with relative ease. There's nothing wrong with buying or selling in order to manipulate that collection.
I don't know how it would work if the maker of a lower from an 80% died suddenly but there's no serial. I guess the estate would be the de-facto owner at that point and would probably be encouraged to have it serialized.
As soon as you put a serial number on it, it's just another long gun. No, it doesn't magically appear on some list. I think we are all reasoable adults and realize that can't happen. however, if you sell it through an FFL to someone else. Or you pawn it, that serial number ends up in the atf database. ergo, the anonymity of a home-milled lower is lost.
the spirit of the C&R is to allow a collector of curios and relics to manipulate their own collection with relative ease. There's nothing wrong with buying or selling in order to manipulate that collection.
I don't know how it would work if the maker of a lower from an 80% died suddenly but there's no serial. I guess the estate would be the de-facto owner at that point and would probably be encouraged to have it serialized.
