A little clarification on Mr. Bergdahl...

[uncle money bags]

I don't think we can call him a defector yet; it's not clear that his intent was to join the Taliban, or that he was even positively deserting from the Army- ...but who really knows what someone else is thinking?

By his own words.

 

[Cohiba]

Doesn't the military consider a ..walk about..at least desertion??

I know if I did a walk about on my job, what would happen.

I know if I did a walk about on my wife what would happen.

I know if I did a walk about I n my financial obligations what would happen.

No one really taught me on this...but somehow I know what would happen.

I (unfortunately) was never in the military, I do come from a loooong line of marines and I even remember my dad talking about a few recruitss sent home in baby blues for a walk about. So the military does train and educate on walk abouts?

The issue is if the military knew he had a mental issue why didn't they discharge him waaaay before it got to this??

 

[O4L]

I am actually leaning more towards traitor.

 

[Dave70968]

Doesn't the military consider a ..walk about..at least desertion??

I know if I did a walk about on my job, what would happen.

I know if I did a walk about on my wife what would happen.

I know if I did a walk about I n my financial obligations what would happen.

No one really taught me on this...but somehow I know what would happen.

I (unfortunately) was never in the military, I do come from a loooong line of marines and I even remember my dad talking about a few recruitss sent home in baby blues for a walk about. So the military does train and educate on walk abouts?

The issue is if the military knew he had a mental issue why didn't they discharge him waaaay before it got to this??

A walkabout, with intent to return, is AWOL. A walkabout without intent to return is desertion. A trip to the other side to give information or assistance is defection.

From the UCMJ:

885. ART. 85. DESERTION

(a) Any member of the armed forces who--

(1) without authority goes or remains absent from his unit, organization, or place of duty with intent to remain away therefrom permanently [emphasis added];

(2) quits his unit, organization, or place of duty with intent to avoid hazardous duty or to shirk important service; or

(3) without being regularly separated from one of the armed forces enlists or accepts an appointment in the same or another on of the armed forces without fully disclosing the fact that he has not been regularly separated, or enters any foreign armed service except when authorized by the United States; is guilty of desertion.

(b) Any commissioned officer of the armed forces who, after tender of his resignation and before notice of its acceptance, quits his post or proper duties without leave and with intent to remain away therefrom permanently is guilty of desertion.

(c) Any person found guilty of desertion or attempt to desert shall be punished, if the offense is committed in time of war, by death or such other punishment as a court-martial may direct, but if the desertion or attempt to desert occurs at any other time, by such punishment, other than death, as a court-martial may direct.

866. ART. 86. ABSENCE WITHOUT LEAVE

Any member of the armed forces who, without authority--

(1) fails to go to his appointed place of duty at the time prescribed;

(2) goes from that place; or

(3) absents himself or remains absent from his unit, organization, or place of duty at which he is required to be at the time prescribed; shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.

Words have meanings.

As has been previously mentioned, he'd taken walkabouts before and returned, so the question of whether he intended to return this time is unsettled.

If--and it has not been proven that he did--he intended to or actually did share information with the enemy, he might also be charged with Aiding the Enemy and/or Espionage:

904. ART. 104. AIDING THE ENEMY

Any person who--

(1) aids, or attempts to aid, the enemy with arms, ammunition, supplies, money, or other things; or

(2) without proper authority, knowingly harbors or [protects or gives intelligence to or communicates or corresponds with or holds any intercourse with the enemy, either directly or indirectly;

shall suffer death or such other punishment as a court-martial or military commission may direct.

...

906a. ART. 106a. ESPIONAGE

(A) (1) Any person subject to this chapter who, with intent or reason to believe that it is to be used to the injury of the United States or to the advantage of a foreign nation, communicates, delivers, or transmits, or attempts to communicate, deliver, or transmit, to any entity described in paragraph (2), either directly or indirectly, any thing described in paragraph (3) shall be punished as a court-martial may direct, except that if the accused is found guilty of an offense that directly concerns (A) nuclear weaponry, military spacecraft or satellites, early warning systems, or other means of defense or retaliation against large scale attack, (B) war plans, (C) communications intelligence or cryptographic information, or (D) any other major weapons system or major element of defense strategy, the accused shall be punished by death or such other punishment as a court- martial may direct.

(2) An entity referred to in paragraph (1) is--

(A) a foreign government;

(B) a faction or party or military force within a foreign country, whether recognized or unrecognized by the United States

(C) a representative, officer, agent, employee, subject, or citizen of such government, faction, party, or force.

(3) A thing refereed to in paragraph (1) is a document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blueprint, plan, map, model, note, instrument, appliance or information relating to the national defense.

(b) (1) No person may be sentenced by court-martial to suffer death for an offense under this section (article) unless--

(A) the members of the court-martial unanimously find at least one of the aggravating factors set out in subsection (c); and

(B) the members unanimously determine that any extenuating or mitigating circumstances are substantially outweighed by any aggravating circumstances, including the aggravating factors set out under subsection (c).

(2) Findings under this subsection may be based on--

(A) evidence introduced on the issue of guilt or innocence;

(B) evidence introduced during the sentencing proceeding; or

(C) all such evidence.

(3) The accused shall be given broad latitude to present matters in extenuation and mitigation.

(c) A sentence of death may be adjudged by a court-martial for an offense under this section (article) only if the members unanimously find, beyond a reasonable doubt, one or more of the following aggravating factors:

(1) The accused has been convicted of another offense involving espionage or treason for which either a sentence of death or imprisonment for life was authorized by statute.

(2) In the commission of the offense, the accused knowingly created a grave risk of substantial damage to the national security.

(3) In the commission of the offense, the accused knowingly created a grave risk of death to another person.

(4) Any other factor that may be prescribed by the President by regulations under section 836 of this title (Article 36).

 

[TerryMiller]

Personally, since Bergdahl was looking for someone to translate for him in contacting the Taliban, I'll take the semantics a step further. Considering that the Taliban was able to have more accurate and more effective attacks on vehicles and outposts, I'm about inclined to think that he was collaborating with the Taliban, and to me, that makes him a traitor.

Had he been "captured on a walkabout" and tortured for the information, I could be lenient. However, from accounts by those that served with him, I'm leaning toward "traitor" because he went looking for the enemy.

 

[VIKING]

I got about as much use for him as I do his ole daddy. Obama seemed to think momma and daddy were pretty awesome. They both need to go squirrel hunting someday around Sasakwa.

 

[SoonerP226]

Doesn't the military consider a ..walk about..at least desertion??
...
I (unfortunately) was never in the military, I do come from a loooong line of marines and I even remember my dad talking about a few recruitss sent home in baby blues for a walk about. So the military does train and educate on walk abouts?

The issue is if the military knew he had a mental issue why didn't they discharge him waaaay before it got to this??

When does AWOL become desertion? If you go AWOL and get captured, does that mean that you are a deserter, or are you just a world-class dumbass?

I have a friend who's a former Marine; he talked about sneaking down to TJ without a pass while he was stationed in San Diego after Desert Storm. If he'd gotten arrested in TJ, I'm sure that could've been considered desertion, too, but he wasn't even charged with being AWOL simply because of the circumstances (we was getting out the next day).

I'm not saying he's not (at the very least) a deserter or a defector, just that not all of the facts are in yet.

ETA--if he really did go out seeking the Taliban to give them info, then he should get a right fair trial followed by a first-class hanging; let's just not be putting the sentencing before the trial.

 

[Dave70968]

When does AWOL become desertion? If you go AWOL and get captured, does that mean that you are a deserter, or are you just a world-class dumbass?

A world-class dumbass. It becomes desertion when there is intent to remain away permanently. See UCMJ Article 85(a)(1), as quoted in my last post.

 

[Cohiba]

I want to make it perfectly clear...I do not in any way, shape or form want to accuse anyone of anything if they are not guilty.

It just seems...yes I know that's a super vague word...but if you have men who have died looking for you, walk away from your post (several times) fellow comrades stating he walked away, several comrades stating he was against the military action he was involved with, emails and tweets about his anti involvement, and who knows what isnt being said or released...it just seems dang absurd.

Why didn't they behead him like they have so many others?? Politics and inside prisoner exchange..so don't kill bim like we have all the other infidels??


Hell, my nephew is a career marine and a few years back...1992ish. He had his entire back tatooed , took about 8 months...anyway he was running around the base without a shirt on. D@mn, they snatched him up and just about discharged him...yes, discharge him for a full length backside tattoo.


All I'm curious about are these issues (and more as facts come in).

1. Why was it 4 or 5 of theirs for 1 of ours.

2. Why those Taliban??

3. Did Congress get the 30 day notice? If they didn't AND the Pres was wanting to get Bergdahl out why not notify the Congress a few days after he went missing? Basically a notice immediately after he went missing, an open policy that congress knew about, approved, and let it stand open until he was "rescued"?

4. If guilty, what punishmet?

5. Will our military now "beef-up" security, take action on walk abouts, and try to prevent this again?

6. What does this show our enemies about us?

7. Will future swift and severe action be taken against out enemies when something like this happens again?
**The reason I ask, if we don't have a plan of "any" action on issues like this...will this increase kidnapping for prisoner exchange?

8. What happened to tbe policy of not dealing with the enemy? Now other parents, relatives, and loved ones can ask..."Why not rescue my son, daughter, spouse..etc". They did it for Bergdahl...why not my family member?


Just a sad situation that I'm really concerned politics and even a Presidential election may ride on part of this. Futher dividing our country between the conservatives and liberals.

 

[Lurker66]

Listen to most of you guys.....charge him with this...charge him with that...hes a deserter, hes a traitor, no a defector. What did his very well trained and informed chain of command do or say?

Did they write him up or charge him with anything in the last 5 years? If he did something wrong they would have started and concluded any charge 5 years ago. If youve been in the military and understand or remember how the discipline system works, it goes like this.

You screw up or get accused of screwing up, your squad leader or if in the Navy a POIC, writes up some kind of infraction report. Then a Platoon SGT or CPO gets involved, then maybe a company commander then maybe XO or CO, then further up the chain to Battallion or Brigade.....there would be a huge paper trail. Especially for something like this.


Early on in this war, kidnappings were fairly common, esp in the northern parts of the country. Company Commanders were even given lots of cash on hand to pay the ransom n get our guys back.

There were even some rumors n whispers that some soldiers would go into town, get captured and split the ransom......

This whole story reaks with amateur propaganda.