Info from the other side of the debate...
http://www.nabita.org/documents/WhitePaperGunsonCampus.pdf
http://www.nabita.org/documents/WhitePaperGunsonCampus.pdf
The student concealed carry group is getting some good pub, including a nice picture of OSA's own Adrienne O'Reilly (OKSCC) prepped for an Empty Holster day on campus!
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=19&articleid=20110302_11_A1_CUTLIN929455
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Good interview!
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=19&articleid=20110302_11_A1_CUTLIN929455
[Broken External Image]
Good interview!
Well, I posted my comment.
I have to say I'm surprised by the ignorance in this discussion. If we take all the emotional nonsense out of the arguments against campus carry we'll start to see things more clearly.
I have my CCL. Why should my right to self defense stop at an arbitrary school border? If I've already proven myself to the state through the CCL program as being competent to carry a gun into Wal-Mart and Whole Foods, why is a University different?
What am I supposed to do when someone barges into my classroom with a gun? Beg and throw my wallet at them? Perhaps everyone in the room could use the tactic that Chicago has told women to do if they're being raped: induce vomiting. Surely we can agree that a forty caliber slug to the head is more effective at stopping a madman than letting him see what I had for lunch. Duck and cover? Well, if he's intent on killing people he's going to do it, no matter how tight of a fetal position we've pulled ourselves into.
What about alcohol? Opponents say that the armed "kids" will be drunk and fighting all the time. This "blood in the streets" argument has been used by the opponents of carry legislation since Florida passed their shall-issue carry law. "Blood will run in the streets over simple fender benders!" They said the same thing about Oklahoma passing our shall-issue law back in the 90s.
But we've yet to see the mass chaos. Sure, there are a few bad apple CCL holders who've committed crimes, but if you take time to look at the ratio of law breaking CCL holders to law-abiding carriers and compare that to the same ratio of people without their permits you'll find that the percentage of permit holders engaging in crime is so obscenely low as compared to the same percentage of non permit holders engaging in crime to be almost negligible.
And what's with all these "kids" comments? You have to be 21 to legally get you CCL and to legally buy a gun. Now, read that last sentence again.
"You have to be 21 to legally get you CCL and to legally buy a gun."
Did you catch it? the key words there are "legally". As we know, criminals, by definition, break the law. Someone who is determined to break the law is not going to be stopped by an arbitrary boundary, sign, or law saying they can't carry onto campus.
"But campuses have always been historically safe areas," you say.
True, and yet we still have to deal with tragedies like Virginia Tech. That madman wasn't stopped by a law or a sign, but he could've been stopped by another students who was carrying a concealed weapon. But instead, his rampage lasted hours and he killed 32 people.
Add to that that historically college campuses have had a higher incidence of sexual assault. My wife graduation last year, but if she'd been assaulted on campus she would've likely only had her voice and her fists to fend off an attacker. I want every man reading this to think about that happening to their wife. Just think about it. Think about some sick lunatic forcing himself onto your wife and how defenseless she is.
Men are stronger than women, but a pistol is a hell of an equalizer. If your wife was train to use a firearm wouldn't you want her to have the right to be abel to protect herself? Even on campus? Wouldn't you be angry at the people who rallied against your wife's right to self defense, these same people who think a rape whistle and vomiting is all the defense she'll ever need?
The people this bill would allow to carry guns onto campus are the same people who are already carrying them off campus. You may not like the thought of this, but when you go to the store chances are you'll be next to a private citizen who is carrying a gun at some point. And you know what? That law-abiding citizen having a gun on his hip puts you in absolutely no more danger than you'd be in if they weren't standing next to you.
It's emotional irrationality that tells our fear conditioned minds that the mere presence of a gun, hidden or in plain view, triggers something within us humans that automatically makes us more violent and prone to confrontation.
Nothing could be farther from the truth.
Take the emotion out of your argument against law-abiding adults being able to protect themselves on campus and you'll start to see that it's not as crazy as it's been made out to be.
I have to say I'm surprised by the ignorance in this discussion. If we take all the emotional nonsense out of the arguments against campus carry we'll start to see things more clearly.
I have my CCL. Why should my right to self defense stop at an arbitrary school border? If I've already proven myself to the state through the CCL program as being competent to carry a gun into Wal-Mart and Whole Foods, why is a University different?
What am I supposed to do when someone barges into my classroom with a gun? Beg and throw my wallet at them? Perhaps everyone in the room could use the tactic that Chicago has told women to do if they're being raped: induce vomiting. Surely we can agree that a forty caliber slug to the head is more effective at stopping a madman than letting him see what I had for lunch. Duck and cover? Well, if he's intent on killing people he's going to do it, no matter how tight of a fetal position we've pulled ourselves into.
What about alcohol? Opponents say that the armed "kids" will be drunk and fighting all the time. This "blood in the streets" argument has been used by the opponents of carry legislation since Florida passed their shall-issue carry law. "Blood will run in the streets over simple fender benders!" They said the same thing about Oklahoma passing our shall-issue law back in the 90s.
But we've yet to see the mass chaos. Sure, there are a few bad apple CCL holders who've committed crimes, but if you take time to look at the ratio of law breaking CCL holders to law-abiding carriers and compare that to the same ratio of people without their permits you'll find that the percentage of permit holders engaging in crime is so obscenely low as compared to the same percentage of non permit holders engaging in crime to be almost negligible.
And what's with all these "kids" comments? You have to be 21 to legally get you CCL and to legally buy a gun. Now, read that last sentence again.
"You have to be 21 to legally get you CCL and to legally buy a gun."
Did you catch it? the key words there are "legally". As we know, criminals, by definition, break the law. Someone who is determined to break the law is not going to be stopped by an arbitrary boundary, sign, or law saying they can't carry onto campus.
"But campuses have always been historically safe areas," you say.
True, and yet we still have to deal with tragedies like Virginia Tech. That madman wasn't stopped by a law or a sign, but he could've been stopped by another students who was carrying a concealed weapon. But instead, his rampage lasted hours and he killed 32 people.
Add to that that historically college campuses have had a higher incidence of sexual assault. My wife graduation last year, but if she'd been assaulted on campus she would've likely only had her voice and her fists to fend off an attacker. I want every man reading this to think about that happening to their wife. Just think about it. Think about some sick lunatic forcing himself onto your wife and how defenseless she is.
Men are stronger than women, but a pistol is a hell of an equalizer. If your wife was train to use a firearm wouldn't you want her to have the right to be abel to protect herself? Even on campus? Wouldn't you be angry at the people who rallied against your wife's right to self defense, these same people who think a rape whistle and vomiting is all the defense she'll ever need?
The people this bill would allow to carry guns onto campus are the same people who are already carrying them off campus. You may not like the thought of this, but when you go to the store chances are you'll be next to a private citizen who is carrying a gun at some point. And you know what? That law-abiding citizen having a gun on his hip puts you in absolutely no more danger than you'd be in if they weren't standing next to you.
It's emotional irrationality that tells our fear conditioned minds that the mere presence of a gun, hidden or in plain view, triggers something within us humans that automatically makes us more violent and prone to confrontation.
Nothing could be farther from the truth.
Take the emotion out of your argument against law-abiding adults being able to protect themselves on campus and you'll start to see that it's not as crazy as it's been made out to be.
Im on the tech staff at a local university and I support cc on campuses
..but: Ive been thinking lately that the dorms would be the place of concern.
Having one roommate who is responsible and has a cc license but the other roommate is an immature idiot could be a problem.
I had such a roommate in college. I brought my 22 rifle to school (no problem back then) and he got to playing around and pointing it at me; he just couldnt get what a moron he was.
I know there's probably not a lot of 21 year olds living in the dorms, so it may not be much of a concern, but I would be for requiring some kind of lock box or something in the dorms.
Having one roommate who is responsible and has a cc license but the other roommate is an immature idiot could be a problem.
I had such a roommate in college. I brought my 22 rifle to school (no problem back then) and he got to playing around and pointing it at me; he just couldnt get what a moron he was.
I know there's probably not a lot of 21 year olds living in the dorms, so it may not be much of a concern, but I would be for requiring some kind of lock box or something in the dorms.
One comment relating to CCW and binge drinking by students:
I know OSU is a dry campus, and I'm pretty sure all state campuses are. Not sure about on campus apartments. Therefore, most such binge drinking (by students), is off campus already, where CCW is legal.
It is currently illegal for anyone (not just students on campus) to carry into a bar.
I know OSU is a dry campus, and I'm pretty sure all state campuses are. Not sure about on campus apartments. Therefore, most such binge drinking (by students), is off campus already, where CCW is legal.
It is currently illegal for anyone (not just students on campus) to carry into a bar.
Eh, that picture is a little irksome- for those who know Adrienne, that doesn't look anything like her- looks like it's a product of the lens, but I'm not sure.
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