CNBC Attack on Remington

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spyglass

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Let's remember 1 thing here.....this is corporate America we're talkin' about. At the time Mike Walker designed the 722, forerunner of the 700, DuPont owned Remington (as well as IMR)....at that level, mistakes are never publicly owned up to.

Most folks seem to think that corporations are living, breathing entities that somehow make products. They're not....the products/services are devised and decisions made by individuals employed by that corporation. The purpose of incorporation by a company is to affect "limited liability" for the top people, should a product be found defective or a practice determined to "unethical"....anything that might lead to litigation against that individual or group thereof, who approved it. The other factor is adverse publicity, should a problem be found, the v-p of sales, product development, etc, may be seen as "not promotable", which in corporate parlance, is tantamount to a career dead end, no bonuses, etc. And since things are very "clubby" at the top (golfing buddies, same country club, etc), no one there wants their "pals" to miss the cut, so the blame can be diluted throughout the corporate maze, and confidential "settlements" can be made, should it come to that.

Those outfits that make the things we are passionate about (guns, cars, motorcycles, et al) are still large corporations or worse, "holding companies", who see only bottom line. Currently, Remington, along with Marlin, Dakota Arms and a host of others, is owned by Cerebrus Capital, an NYC-based "Wall St concern".....these enterprises, whether they produce weaponry, automotive, pharmacueticals, aircraft, electronics....will be slow to admit error, either to "save face" or avoid the huge cost of recall/repair (or both).
 

Street Rat

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Wow. I just watched it. Thought it would be a total hatchet job, but......

I find it "odd" that Remington wouldn't talk to CNBC except for a one page statement after 5 months of requests that says there is no problem and never has been. And it's "odd" that the actual designer figured out that there could be a problem back in the late '40s. He even designed a fix for it with only about 200 sold.

What more is there to say? I remember back in the early 90's when Jeep owners were claiming that when they would step on the breaks it would accelerate and watching the interview pretty much all the Chrysler rep would say that there wasn't a defect, people were simply stepping on the accelerator due to it's size. Could be the same thing?

I didn't watch the CNBC report, but guns (or people with guns) can be dangerous, know where you are pointing and what is behind any walls, building, or trailers. It really should be said that guns are safe because we know what they are capable of.
 

Larry Morgan

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They include the death in 2000 of nine-year-old Gus Barber of Manhattan, Montana, who was killed on a family hunting trip when his mother's Remington 700 went off as she was unloading it. Barbara Barber has said she is certain her hand was nowhere near the trigger.

WTF was she doing pointing the weapon at her son, at any time??

You beat me to that punch. When I read that I was like "wtf?!"

Let's all hold someone else responsible when WE violate one of the cardinal gun safety rules, shall we?

What a crock.

It's a complex device, any way you slice it. Try as you might, they won't all be perfect. There are huge numbers of rem 700's around, so even if with ridiculously low failure rates, you'll still get failures from time to time. It's a statistical fact that any company who produces large quantities of something has to deal with...
 

870WingBlaster

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remington isn't going anywhere. between the model 700, the model 870(10 million sold), and gun owners like us going....why was she pointing the gun at her son.....not going out of business
 

NikatKimber

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To me, it's like some yuppie complaining about running over their kid with their car because the backup alarm didn't go off telling them something was in the way.

It's a mechanical safety, just like the mechanical trigger, just like the mechanical firing mechanism. I'm not saying that Remington shouldn't have any fault here, but that if you're relying only on the safety to keep you safe, then you're asking for trouble.

I was changing out light fixtures in my house the other night. I went and flipped the breaker off first. Then I STILL used my little tester to make sure they weren't hot. Then, I checked an outlet in the room that I knew would be hot, to make sure the tester worked. Am I paranoid? Maybe, but I didn't electrocute myself either.
 

Gunrunner45

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they were on their ranch, working, and were on horses. they pulled up to the trailer, her son jumped off his horse, unknown to his mom, and went around the trailer. she was on the horse, and went to unload the rifle. the old style r700 requires you to throw the safety off before pulling bolt back. when she through the safety off, the gun went off, and went through the trailer and into her sons abdomen killing him.

1. Keep the gun pointed in a safe direction.
2. Know your target and whats beyond it.

Sorry if the gun was pointed in a safe direction... at the ground, her son would still be alive... PERIOD.

A gun is a mechanical device operated through human interaction & thereby prone to malfunction.

Doesn't matter if every rifle Remington ever made was defective. As long as those rules are followed nobody would ever get injured or die. FACT

However if Remington knew their product was defective they should have corrected it from day 1 regardless of the cost or stopped producing it. Thats just the right thing to do & good business.
 

Larry Morgan

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You people would be right there with CNBC if it would have been a Hi-point or Jennings. Just saying.

I actually have a Jennings .22 and I wouldn't bet 10 cents on the safety working on that thing. In fact, I've actually made the hammer drop by pulling the trigger with the safety on.

Still doesn't change the fact that I'm not going to hold the cheapest or the most expensive piece of equipment responsible for my own safety when I can follow a few cardinal rules to ensure it. Just saying.

Your car has a park setting and and a parking brake, but would you set your baby right behind the rear wheel with your car parked on an incline? Nope.
You put your baby a few feet away, and it doesn't matter if the car moves forwards or backwards, there's no problem. You point the darn gun in a safe direction while unloading it, and even if it goes off, there's no problem. Easy as that.

The bottom line is that people get complacent and forget. They figure since it's always behaved the way they expected, why should this time be any different. They forget that no device is perfect and no device lasts forever.
 

ProBusiness

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I watched the show last night, all but the first 10 minutes.

It is reasonable to buy a product and expect it to work as represented. I bet no where in the manual does it say, 'be careful when taking the safety off because it can fire'.

The show showed the gun firing when 1) the safety was pushed to 'off' and 2)the bolt handle was 'touched', just touched.

Not all 700 guns will do this.

On the show they talked to the man who worked for remington and designed this trigger. he said that after 200 guns came off the line, in 1947, he realized that the firing pin could release when the safety was moved to off and he wrote memos to remington saying they needed to make adjustments to this trigger.

The show had his memo to remington and about 6000 letters from 700 owners that said their gun went off when the safety was moved to 'off'.

IMO this is not a bunch of people crying wolf, it seems well documented that the gun is not safe and remington should of corrected it, at least change the trigger system back in 1947 for the manufacturing process of all future guns.
 

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