College Concealed Carry - Kansas will allow?

[Dale00]

Anyone know more about the new Kansas law referenced in this article? It appears that college carry is or will become legal in Kansas. The wording in the article is murky.

Three Kansas community colleges have created an insurance consortium after their insurance company increased rates and said it wouldn’t insure the schools if they allowed concealed-carry in public buildings.

Independence Community College board of trustees voted last week to join Coffeyville and Neosho community colleges in an effort to lower rates and explore a new Kansas law that loosens restrictions on carrying concealed weapons into public buildings....

...The three colleges are “purchasing one giant policy,” Barwick said. The consortium members will “realize a modest savings” in the first year, but as more groups join, the savings will grow.

Wright Speciality is handling the liability insurance for the consortium and has a neutral stance on concealed-carry, Barwick said.

“We won’t be penalized,” he said.

The new law takes the responsibility of protection on campus from the college and transfers it to the public, Barwick said. He also said the way he understands the law, if a concealed-carry incident takes place on campus, the person with the license would be responsible, not the college.

Neosho Community College’s president said the college will take time to study the situation and determine what is cost effective — whether the college has the funds to place metal detectors and personnel at each public entrance.

http://cjonline.com/news/2013-06-23/wake-higher-rates-new-gun-law-colleges-form-insurance-consortium

 

[Dale00]

Doing a little searching to see what I can find out...

 

[NightShade]

Kansas laws are a bit off to begin with. They allow open carry but there is no state preemption so the local communities can outlaw open carry. You can still conceal with a permit there and ignore the no carry in the city laws but with no preemption it makes things rather open for interpretation. I suspect that the college law will also be much like others where you technically can carry but the dean must approve it.

 

[Hobbes]

A new Kansas law allowing gun owners to carry weapons in public buildings, including schools, has thrust a major Des Moines-based insurer into the national gun control debate.

The EMC Insurance Cos. insures 85 percent to 90 percent of all Kansas school districts and has refused to renew coverage for schools that permit teachers and custodians to carry concealed firearms on their campuses under the new law, which took effect July 1. It’s not a political decision, but a financial one based on the riskier climate it estimates would be created, the insurer said.

“We’ve been writing school business for almost 40 years, and one of the underwriting guidelines we follow for schools is that any on-site armed security should be provided by uniformed, qualified law enforcement officers,” said Mick Lovell, EMC’s vice president for business development. “Our guidelines have not recently changed.”

The Kansas Legislature passed the law after the fatal shootings of 20 elementary school children in Newtown, Conn., in December.

The law is similar to one in Utah. Around the country, firearms groups have called on schools to let teachers and staff carry weapons to protect children and prevent mass shootings.

A smaller Des Moines-area insurer — Continental Western Group, based in Urbandale — has followed EMC’s lead with a similar position in response to the new law, according to the Kansas Association of School Boards’ insurance program.

So has Wright Specialty Insurance, based in New York.

EMC is the 20th-largest private employer in the Des Moines area, with 1,126 local employees. Continental Western Group serves the Midwest and is part of the W.R. Berkley Corp. The metro area is a hub for the insurance industry, employing 24,100 people.

As of Saturday, no Kansas school districts had adopted a policy of allowing people with concealed carry permits on their campuses as permitted under the new law, said David Shriver, director of the Kansas school board association’s insurance program.

Bob Skow, chief executive officer of the Independent Insurance Agents of Iowa, said he’s not surprised by the companies’ decisions. Insurance is all about risk and about pricing the cost of coverage in a way that correctly reflects it. That’s one of the reasons many schools have gotten rid of their trampolines, he said.

“It’s one thing to have a trained peace officer with a gun in school; it’s a completely different situation when you have a custodian or a teacher with a gun,” Skow said. “That changes the risk of insuring a school and magnifies it considerably.”

Insurers simply don’t know how to price the added risk yet, he said, but they know it’s there.

While a trampoline can hurt one person, modern weapons have the potential to kill many people very quickly, he said, in a reference to Newtown. Adam Lanza, 20, fatally shot 20 children and six adults at Sandy Hook Elementary School there Dec. 14 before taking his own life.

Other shootings at schools include the 1999 shootings at Columbine High School, which caused 15 deaths and 21 injuries, and a 2007 shooting spree at Virginia Tech, which produced 33 deaths and 23 injuries. Mass shootings have claimed 934 lives in 146 shootings over the past seven years, according to a study by USA Today.

After the Newtown shootings, the National Rifle Association and its political allies called for an armed officer in every school.

NRA opponents have called for stricter gun control to reduce the availability of firearms. Ladd Everitt, director of communications for the Washington, D.C.-based Coalition to Stop Gun Violence, said he wasn’t surprised that EMC and other insurers were balking at covering the risk of the new Kansas law.

“This is a logical response from insurers to a risk nightmare,” Everitt said. “Putting a teacher or an administrator with little firearms training in a school with a loaded weapon is clearly a threat to everyone, including the kids.”

Forrest Knox, the Kansas state senator who is the chief advocate of the new gun law, maintains that having legal guns in schools and other government buildings could prevent injuries. He’s been pushing the legislation for years.

Knox said that local governments are free to opt out of the law allowing weapons in public buildings, but only 300 of the 3,000 counties and municipalities in Kansas have sent letters to the state attorney general seeking exemptions.

He said three community colleges in and around his district in Altoona, Kan., have found an insurer who will work with them. Shriver, the Kansas school board group insurance director, identified the company as IMA, or Insurance Management Association, which he described as a brokerage that would market the coverage to different companies.

He identified the schools as Independence Community College, Labette Community College and Neosho County Community College.

“I’m not an insurance expert, but it’s hard for me to believe that if schools and other public buildings allow law-abiding citizens to carry that that increases risk — it’s news to me,” Knox said. “Law enforcement responds better (to school shootings now), but it still takes a few minutes, and a lot of damage can be done in a few minutes.”

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/ar...-EMC-Insurance-into-gun-debate?nclick_check=1

 

[Dale00]

Sounds like Kansas is doing some good things that will likely help in loosening Oklahoma restrictions once they prove successful there. I'm still not finding a definitive description of the changes but one discussion board there indicates legislation passed both houses which allowed the following. Whether or not the Governor signed it into law is unknown to me.

*Teachers may carry in schools if they have a CC license even IF the buildings are posted.
* We can already carry at / in any school or campus that is not posted, but it takes this even further and requires them within 4 yrs to have security, metal detectors, etc. at doors or they cannot post.

http://www.defensivecarry.com/forum/second-amendment-gun-legislation-discussion/165140-kansas-passes-several-gun-laws-all-positive-gun-owners.html

 

[Dale00]

A bit more digging reveals that HB 2052 was signed into law by the Governor of Kansas. http://www.kslegislature.org/li/b2013_14/measures/hb2052/

The success of these measures in Kansas should provide strong leverage for making similar changes in Oklahoma.

 

[Hobbes]

A bit more digging reveals that HB 2052 was signed into law by the Governor of Kansas. http://www.kslegislature.org/li/b2013_14/measures/hb2052/

The success of these measures in Kansas should provide strong leverage for making similar changes in Oklahoma.

Your post makes me wonder if you even read the article I posted.

Insurers are refusing to write insurance policies for schools that allow CC with the result that schools have refused to allow CC at all.

At least read the paragraph that begins "As of Saturday"

 

[Dale00]

Your post makes me wonder if you even read the article I posted.

Insurers are refusing to write insurance policies for schools that allow CC with the result that schools have refused to allow CC at all.

At least read the paragraph that begins "As of Saturday"

The information available is murky - that is why I was seeking input. Thanks for your post.

The insurance angle does not appear to be a deal breaker. As your article states, "only 300 out of 3000 counties and municipalities in Kansas have sent letters to the state attorney general seeking exemptions." Further it details some community colleges that have found insurance coverage.

I have not had time to plow though the legislation itself but the discussion of it is encouraging. It appears that four years from now Kansas colleges will be able to continue to post no gun signs but only if they provide metal detectors and security at all building entrances. It seems that enough Kansas legislators understood the gun-free zone fallacy that they overruled the "blood in the streets" fear mongering of the anti's.

I could be mistaken. If so, I welcome enlightenment.

 

[henschman]

My ass that isn't a politically motivated policy by the insurance company. It certainly isn't based on facts and statistics, like most actuarial formulas are. Reality does not bear out their assertion that allowing carry creates a "riskier environment." I'm glad they were able to find a carrier that wasn't placing politics ahead of sound business practices.