Elf on the shelf

[tRidiot]

Have fun with that.

My son believed in Santa and even up until this year he doesn't discuss it, although we know his friends at school have spilled the beans.

But then... my son also knows what's right and what's wrong, and childhood stories like Santa and the Tooth Fairy aren't promoting lying or dishonesty. You can raise your however you like, but my son knows lying is wrong - in spite of having been taught to believe in Santa.

And do as I say, not as I do actually CAN work when you explain the whys and the hows. My son knows not to touch a gun on his own. He knows the drinking alcohol is not for children. He knows he can't drive a car or sit in the front seat. Is that a double-standard? Sure. But it's not a bad thing... you don't have to live your life the way your children do. Some things are inappropriate for children and when they understand why (besides just,"Because I said so!"), it's not that big of a deal.

 

[dennishoddy]

I still believe in Santa.
Sent a Christmas letter wishing for a fly fishing school in February. I hope "she" brings my gift.

 

[YukonGlocker]

Of course there are things that adults can do, that kids can't (or maybe shouldn't). I'm not talking about those. And of course there are various ways to successfully raise a child. In regard to lying, saying "do what I say, not what I do" is totally ineffective in the vast majority of cases.

 

[tRidiot]

Of course there are things that adults can do, that kids can't (or maybe shouldn't). I'm not talking about those. And of course there are various ways to successfully raise a child. In regard to lying, saying "do what I say, not what I do" is totally ineffective in the vast majority of cases.

Well obviously, lying and telling your kid they can't lie is not a good plan. I just don't see the childhood traditions being described in this thread as the same as "lying". Little white lies? I dunno... but it isn't the same. It's like trying to nail down the definition of pornography.

 

[YukonGlocker]

Elf on the shelf definitely is a lie, and a lie with no apparent sufficient reason (i.e., lying can be morally good, with sufficient reason). It also teaches children to "shut down" their critical thinking skills (i.e., don't question, don't doubt, just believe because I said so). That being said, one of the biggest problems with elf on the shelf is using it as a basis for rewarding/punishing behavior. Things fall apart quickly when a parent's reward/punishment system is based on a lie (i.e., the Elf will watch you and report back to Santa). Additionally, teaching a child that it's ok to let someone watch you without consent is another issue, and something children expect their parents to protect them from (not promote, like they do with the Elf). I could go on with more, but with all the consequences together, it isn't worth it in the short- or long-term.

 

[tRidiot]

Elf on the shelf definitely is a lie, and a lie with no apparent sufficient reason (i.e., lying can be morally good, with sufficient reason). It also teaches children to "shut down" their critical thinking skills (i.e., don't question, don't doubt, just believe because I said so). That being said, one of the biggest problems with elf on the shelf is using it as a basis for rewarding/punishing behavior. Things fall apart quickly when a parent's reward/punishment system is based on a lie (i.e., the Elf will watch you and report back to Santa). Additionally, teaching a child that it's ok to let someone watch you without consent is another issue, and something children expect their parents to protect them from (not promote, like they do with the Elf). I could go on with more, but with all the consequences together, it isn't worth it in the short- or long-term.

Eh, I completely disagree. Sorry. It's not that big of a deal, you're making it into something it's not. But hey, no one's making you do it in your home.

 

[YukonGlocker]

There's plenty of evidence behind the concepts I'm summarizing. It may not be a big deal to you, or in your family; but it makes a difference for a great deal of parents. There are droves of parents bringing their kids in for professional help for problems that stem from things such as this. That pretty much brings it full circle to my original post in this thread.

My main question about it is: Why play a game based on lies, control, and a creepy guy watching you without consent, if there's any chance at all that it has negative consequences?

 

[tRidiot]

haha. Like I said.... WAAAAAY overblown, IMO. There are droves of parents bringing kids in for problems that are systemic in their homes... pointing to something like this as THE CAUSE of their kids' problems is disingenuous at the least. You're right, in our home, it's not a problem. In our home, we teach lots of things that the mainstream media and academia are telling us is bad - like Christianity. Some guy in the sky watching everything you do? An all-powerful being who will send you to hell if you don't accept him? Hmm.... a God who allows others to suffer and die, even children?

Yeah... pointing to one thing like one of Santa's elves coming to visit around the holiday season as the source of someone's problems is BS. I guaran-fecking-tee you that I can find other problems in those households where kids are needing professional help. I'm not dismissing the need to have clear boundaries for children and to lead by example in terms of moral direction - but I don't believe for a second that Santa and his elves are the root of the problem.

 

[YukonGlocker]

I'm a systems practitioner, and I didn't say it was "the one" cause of one or more problems. Of course the problems are systemic, but part of that system in many cases is the way Elf on the shelf is handled (even if it isn't Elf on the Shelf). That doesn't mean it's the case for everyone. What's disingenuous is saying "academia" is telling people christianity is bad; that hate-based bullshat isn't tolerated in most branches of academia (but the mainstream media seems to be doing a good job at persuading you otherwise).

 

[YukonGlocker]

Also, the concept of a god watching over you from above is processed mentally much different from the concept of a small man in your house watching your every move. Those two things have different meanings and interpretations, especially to a child.