If you don't vote, don't complain...

[John6185]

I didn't go into it but he did not believew that Jesus was the Savior of mankind. He did believe in God and felt that when he arrived and stood before God that he coud simply apologize for all of his evil doings on earth and that would certify him as worthy to enter into the portals of Heaven.

 

[TedKennedy]

And Nathan departed unto his house. And the LORD struck the child that Uriah's wife bare unto David, and it was very sick. David therefore besought God for the child; and David fasted, and went in, and lay all night upon the earth. And the elders of his house arose, and went to him, to raise him up from the earth: but he would not, neither did he eat bread with them. And it came to pass on the seventh day, that the child died.
https://www.bible.com/bible/compare/2SA.12.15-23
Here's a good one from 2 Samuel. Who struck the child?
(KJV for those who believe King James commissioned the only correct version)

That's the child of David. Perhaps one could take a quick glance at how dear the Lord holds babies of the tribes in Canaan?

15 And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive?

16 Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the Lord in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the Lord.

17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.

18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.


I bet if you could talk to Moses and tell him you were stopping a bunch of women from "killing the unborn" of non-Judaic children, out of wedlock in most cases, he'd not likely be quite as outraged as some of today's anti-abortionists.

 

[TwoShoots]

I bet if you could talk to Moses and tell him you were stopping a bunch of women from "killing the unborn" of non-Judaic children, out of wedlock in most cases, he'd not likely be quite as outraged as some of today's anti-abortionists.

Big difference in Moses and the world today?

Jesus.

 

[TedKennedy]

Big difference in Moses and the world today?

Jesus.

God's the same yesterday, today and forever. His values surely haven't changed, or maybe they have?

 

[TANSTAAFL]

Two issues that have come up in this thread I would like to respond to. The first is a woman president. On social media the argument for kh is essentially framed and leading that somehow a man refusing to vote for kh is against a woman president. Personally I am not against the idea, as long as a woman who is running appears to be the best candidate and supports many of the political principles and ideology I like and support. It's that simple, it's the best person.

The second has been argued ad infinitum on this forum and many others, that is abortion. I would think most people support the concept if a mother's life is in danger due to pregnancy, morally ethically and in most faiths an abortion is a logical solution if the mother and potentially the father opts for it. My thoughts though is at conception assuming all is going as it should that mass of cells can only become a human, not a lizard, goat or any other animal.

Abortion lets fathers off the hook. If a woman has an abortion, the father potentially and the general public at large will be off the hook. No consequence to the father at all whether he is single or married, the problem goes away.

Abortion is about unwanted people, so it erodes the meaning of a human life. If we can abort fetus' that will develop into humans why not get rid of the mentally challenged, the handicapped, the elderly? Why do you think they keep pushing that third trimester boundary?

If a woman has a baby outside of marriage without the financial resources to support it, she does have a social safety net, there are government programs which again gets the father off the hook.

Social safety nets that we pay for as taxpayers has been used for decades as an argument that we need abortion clinics and it is cheaper and a societal need to keep people off the public dole.

I think abortion is demeaning to the woman and patriarchal as a result. How about making the father 100% responsible for a child's upbringing, married or not. If he doesn't pay or contribute to that child's welfare in a meaningful way for the child's upbringing and mother's support, send him to prison, and have the woman and child still get public benefits if needed. I think if carefully thought out further than my ramblings laws like that could do more to prevent unwanted pregnancy than abortion on demand. It puts a woman with child back in control of her and her child's destiny. I think this is more choice for women in general, and would work in pro and anti abortion states.

 

[okcBob]

God's the same yesterday, today and forever. His values surely haven't changed, or maybe they have?

More nonsense. Pro abortion Christians often use convoluted arguments from the bible to somehow claim that God supports abortion. Neither Numbers or Samuel support it. Using these passages in that manner are an incredible stretch that strains credibility.
The Bible teaches it’s wrong to kill innocent human beings and routinely assumes pre-born humans are fully human, with a full human nature.
Liberal Christians use the same tactic of using Biblical passages trying to claim Jesus was a socialist. This claim is just as stupid as the abortion claim.

 

[TedKennedy]

More nonsense. Pro abortion Christians often use convoluted arguments from the bible to somehow claim that God supports abortion. Neither Numbers or Samuel support it. Using these passages in that manner are an incredible stretch that strains credibility.
The Bible teaches it’s wrong to kill innocent human beings and routinely assumes pre-born humans are fully human, with a full human nature.
Liberal Christians use the same tactic of using Biblical passages trying to claim Jesus was a socialist. This claim is just as stupid as the abortion claim.

You're probably right. If he could, I expect he'd stop abortion altogether.

 

[TwoShoots]

God's the same yesterday, today and forever. His values surely haven't changed, or maybe they have?

God is the same, but Jesus came as a sacrifice for all mankind. Before this, Jews consdered gentiles as cattle (and many still do today), even though God speaks about all people multiple times in the bible.
Also, your quote isn't from Samuel, but from Numbers where the gentiles were following Balaam and doing everything they could to be ungodly, causing a plague to fall on the people. Sacrifice is a common theme before Jesus.....

You're probably right. If he could, I expect he'd stop abortion altogether.

that would stomp on free will, and be just as good as helicoptering your children. You don't learn without risk, temptation, and loss.

 

[TedKennedy]

God is the same, but Jesus came as a sacrifice for all mankind. Before this, Jews consdered gentiles as cattle (and many still do today), even though God speaks about all people multiple times in the bible.
Also, your quote isn't from Samuel, but from Numbers where the gentiles were following Balaam and doing everything they could to be ungodly, causing a plague to fall on the people. Sacrifice is a common theme before Jesus.....

You're correct. I had Numbers and Samuel both in my head, but the typing went astray.

You're also correct about us being cattle. Tax cattle to be more specific.

that would stomp on free will, and be just as good as helicoptering your children. You don't learn without risk, temptation, and loss.

And all those precious unborn babies won't get that choice of free will? What a kind and benevolent system.

And...even if the Gentiles were doing ungodly things, do you reckon those infants were aware of it - cognizant of their sin and malfeasance?

 

[TwoShoots]

And all those precious unborn babies won't get that choice of free will? What a kind and benevolent system.

And...even if the Gentiles were doing ungodly things, do you reckon those infants were aware of it - cognizant of their sin and malfeasance?

Sacrifice, remember? Sometimes bad things happen to the innocent to punish the guilty and set an example. You can bet the surviving women didn't act the same, and the plague was lifted proving the point was made.