Is Doug Friesen's advice to never touch the gun, or consent to search good advise?

[flybeech]

Doug Friesen gave an interesting talk and Q&A at H&H prior to November 1st to prepare us for the extension of our 2A privilege. If I got nothing else out of the little seminar, the best thing I recall was how to deal with a traffic stop, or other encounter with LE. He impressed on the class that the best approach was to immediately inform the officer that we have a gun, remain calm and NEVER, EVER touch our firearm in the presence of a police officer, NEVER, EVER consent to a search, provide our papers immediately and avoid saying ANYTHING that could be used against us, either in court, or the contact. He stressed that even if the officer ordered the detainee to hand over the weapon, to refuse and tell the officer that you will not touch the gun during the contact. Make the officer get it himself, if he wants it, but again tell the officer you do not consent to any search, or entry into the vehicle.

I haven't had a ticket in over 30 years and have managed to have minimal police contact, but that is no guarantee of a future contact. I just want to be sure that any contact I have with LE is peaceful and as brief as possible, but I do not want to surrender any of my remaining rights in a stop.

Would most agree that Doug's advise to never, ever touch your firearm in police presence and informing the officer that you do not consent to any search or seizure is the best advise, or could failure to give consent to search and question at will, serve to anger the officer and make things much more difficult for the detainee? Also, many in the seminar asked what to do if the officer ordered the detainee to hand over the weapon, to which he replied again and again "never, ever touch your firearm in the presence of a police officer" and "never, ever consent to any search".

How would the others here handle a routine traffic stop with a police officer while lawfully armed, or what would you add to Doug's basic advise for the stop?

 

[soonersfan]

I don't open carry and don't have run-ins with the law. So, for me personally I don't anticipate ever being in this situation. However, I think Doug's advice is good as usual. I've heard Doug say before that the concealed weapons law was passed to improve the gene pool in Oklahoma. His reasoning was that people who say, Officer, I'm carrying a weapon and then reach for it, are stupid and will be eliminated from the gene pool by that officer.

I'm not sure touching your firearm would anger an officer as much as it would require them to take precautions for their own safety. If they have to choose in a split second between going home or finding out if your motives are pure, they may choose going home. I would think the best thing to do during an interaction with an officer, whether you carry or not, is to present yourself in the least threatening way possible. I think it is best to wait for an officer's instruction rather than trying to anticipate what they want you to do. If for some reason an officer wanted to disarm you, I doubt they would take issue with you telling them that you are not comfortable drawing your firearm and would prefer that the officer disarm you.

 

[Glocktogo]

Doug's advice is solid. I would add that you do all of this very politely for best results.

 

[SMS]

I would add that you do all of this very politely for best results.

+1. A lot of folks miss that part....using words and terms such as "refuse" and "make the officer get it himself" sets up an antagonistic encounter that is unnecessary.

"Officer, I am concerned for my own safety as well as yours. I think it would be better for all of us if you safely removed the firearm from my holster." goes a lot farther than "I know my rights and I'm not handing you my gun! Get it yourself!"

 

[aestus]

Almost a year ago, an OKC cop pulled me over. I told him I was CC'ing and had a permit. He nods and then explains to me that some officers don't disarm and some do. He says that he's pro CCL, but he's one of the officers that do.

He asks me if it's "hot" and I nod yes. He instructs me to pull it out of my IWB holster and to hand him the gun. Honestly, it threw me off and wasn't expecting this. He could tell that I was uncomfortable with this and assured me it's ok and to slowly hand him the loaded firearm.

I slowly raised my strong-side shirt and reveal my firearm and slowly pulled the firearm out by the farthest end of the grip possible. I then awkwardly handed him the firearm being careful to not point it at my legs or at him. He firmly gripped the gun away from me and walked back to his squad car.

Few minutes back, he gives me a warning and says that he supports people with CCL's and is only giving me a warning. He then hands me my firearm unloaded and my mag separately. Then he hands me my loose ammunition he unloaded from my mag separately and instructs me to not load my magazine with the ammo and ready the firearm until after his patrol car leaves.

To this day, it was one of the weirder contacts with an officer while carrying.

 

[flybeech]

I agree that courtesy goes a long ways with everyone, including police, so personally, I'm unlikely to tell an officer anything in a belligerent tone. Back in the day, driving my Road Runner, I was a frequent customer. I can't count how many breaks I received by simply treating them with the Golden Rule method.

Doug maintained in the most certain terms was never, ever touch the firearm in the presence of a LEO and went on to indicate that touching the gun for any reason can only open the door to the day ending badly. He said that anything might set-off an officer who might already be on edge. He suggested that if they really wanted the gun and it's on your body, he will ask you to exit the vehicle and take it himself. He advised to close the door behind you, to re-enforce the "I don't consent to a search" theme. Doug said that if the officer decides to search your car anyways, don't make a big deal about it then and worry about an illegal search and/or seizure later.

I really don't expect any trouble with LEO's, but I want any encounter when I'm armed to go smoothly so both of us can get on our way as soon as possible.

 

[beast1989]

I dont have a CCW but I think it is sound advice. I dont think I would touch my gun personally because it would be down right uncomfortable in the presence of an officer.

 

[jstaylor62]

I agree with never consent to a search. Too often, LEO are able to perform a warrantless search by simply asking. People think that LEO can just ask and you have to comply. Just politely ask that they clearly state their probable cause and reason for the search. Keep in mind that anything they see while looking through your windows while standing outside the vehicle can be used for probable cause. If you're diabetic and they see a needle, then they can claim they believe drugs are in your vehicle.

I'm not sure about the logic about telling LEO that I do not want to hand over my firearm to them. I've been stopped a couple of times while CCW and never had an officer ask me to hand over my weapon. And to be honest, I would be so surprised I'm not sure how I would react.

 

[twoguns?]

Doug said that if the officer decides to search your car anyways, don't make a big deal about it then and worry about an illegal search and/or seizure later.
.
.Lock the doors when you get out, , Politely

 

[henschman]

Yes, it's good advice. I will add that the only things you are legally required to do are to tell them is that you have a firearm in your possession, and to show them the license. You don't have to tell them where the firearm is, what condition it is in, etc. If asked about this, you can just tell them that you are not legally required to answer that, and you would prefer not to talk about it. Also, it is generally best to already have the handgun license out when the cop comes up to your door, so you don't have to go reaching into your pockets right after you tell him you have a gun. As was mentioned, you should stay calm and polite. Even if they are trying to escalate the situation with angry or rude talk, don't escalate it further. This can lead to places where you don't want to be, especially when both parties are armed. Though you should refuse consent for searches and seizures and you don't have to tell them any more than is legally required, it is generally prudent to follow any orders they give you, even if it is an unlawful one (it can always be challenged later in court if need be). If it was a valid stop to begin with, they always have the legal authority to have you exit the vehicle, so it doesn't do any good to protest this. As was said, close the door when you get out. If you can, roll up the window and lock the doors. If they start patting you down, trying to take your gun, or searching your car, remind them that they are doing this without your consent. Don't resist physically though, not even slightly. That is when bad things really happen.