Is it time? AR-15 question

[sh00ter]

Shooter,
I think we are closer in opinion than it would appear. However, the failures of the M4 in the battles at Shah-i-kot, and more importantly, at Wanat, were not due to problems inherent with the DI system. They were failures to adhere to the firing schedule. Not that they had a choice under the circumstances.
Like I said before, the HK416 and M4 share the same max sustained rate of fire. The failure point is the barrel, not the gas system. Even the M27 only increases the Max Sustained ROF to 36 rounds per minute, which is about 1/3rd that of the weapon it is replacing; the M249 SAW. A decision I personally think is a mistake, but who am I?
Now, do we have a relatively close comparison of how the regular length barreled piston, 5.56 weapons have done? Kind of, check out some stories on the feedback for the HK G36 in theater. Once again, the barrel is the stumbling block.
As to the SCAR FOW...
It is my first choice for a sub 11.5 gun that will be suppressed. In that role it shines. If I were to use a rifle that had a longer barrel; in 5.56, I would have no problem with a quality DI system. It has everything to do with dwell and unlock time. I believe the 416's used by the Unit are 10.4 in barrels as well.
Yes, SOCOM uses the SCAR system. That program just received a 5 year extension. In the Mk17 configuration with conversion kits for 5.56. There are some Mk16's in inventory, but only at one location that I am aware of and all of them are CQC models. Currently there is one company working with SOCOM to field conversion kits in other calibers as well, including 7.62x39.

In short, I think the piston 5.56 platform has it's place, under certain circumstances,( I love me some SIG 552...) but outside of those the differences in reliability are minimal and come at the expense of other potential failure modes.

EDIT: to add underlined info.

Everything you said is valid EXCEPT if you figure SHTF...not a short SHTF scenario like the downed helo, but 3yrs n the bush with no gun oil...if I had to pick what rifle to have under that condition, it would not be a DI weapon...that is the jist of my point. But if you are talking consistent fire in a long firefight, the barrel would be a weak point. You are very well informed and I respect your observations. My point is very specific I guess..."worst case scenario Mad Max post-apocalyptic conditions".

 

[sh00ter]

SOCOM ditched the SCAR Light replacement for the M4 because it offered no measurable improvement over the M4 after operational testing. They kept the heavy but in a special augmenting role.

Comparing the AK's long piston design to AR variants that utilize a short piston is not an apples to apples comparison. The AK designer himself ditched a short piston design.

Most reports and hay making over M4's failing in combat have been overstated or misrepresented.

There is no big push from operational users in the U.S. military to ditch DI.

I'm not saying piston sucks, just that its not better enough in any measurable way to abandon a battle tested design.

If it tells you anything, I would choose the long piston 556 over the short too.

 

[sh00ter]

AKs are cheaper and the ammo is widely available. Plus the reliability is unbeatable. Ak74 is a great choice. Got mine for only 500. That's just my preference though

That 5.45 is a great round...I had a buddy do the same as you but IN MY OPINION, I'd rather have 7.62x39 or 5.56 in whatever I got because 5.45 isn't going to be as widely available in SHTF...and yes, they do make some Russian guns that use 5.56!

 

[NikatKimber]

Everything you said is valid EXCEPT if you figure SHTF...not a short SHTF scenario like the downed helo, but 3yrs n the bush with no gun oil...if I had to pick what rifle to have under that condition, it would not be a DI weapon...that is the jist of my point. But if you are talking consistent fire in a long firefight, the barrel would be a weak point. You are very well informed and I respect your observations. My point is very specific I guess..."worst case scenario Mad Max post-apocalyptic conditions".

You don't need to carry gun oil. If it's truly the SHTF, dribble some off the dip stick of abandoned cars every once in a while. I doubt there is going to be sustained fire long enough to burn off and jam your gun, and still need to keep shooting. Besides, that'd be talking hundreds of rounds. If you can carry that on you, why not a little bottle of oil?

I don't get the hang up on oil. Also consider this: you (your body) will need a LOOOOOOOOT more water than your gun will oil.

 

[uncle money bags]

^^^ what he said.

 

[NikatKimber]

Another point, NO semi-auto gun, to my knowledge, will run for any extended amount of time completely dry. Sure, a Glock or a piston operated rifle may run for a few more rounds than a 1911, Sig, or DI rifle, but not years and years of constant usage more.

 

[SMS]

AKs are cheaper and the ammo is widely available. Plus the reliability is unbeatable. Ak74 is a great choice. Got mine for only 500. That's just my preference though

Price any 5.45 lately?

It was once a great economical option...not so much now.

 

[sh00ter]

You don't need to carry gun oil. If it's truly the SHTF, dribble some off the dip stick of abandoned cars every once in a while. I doubt there is going to be sustained fire long enough to burn off and jam your gun, and still need to keep shooting. Besides, that'd be talking hundreds of rounds. If you can carry that on you, why not a little bottle of oil?

I don't get the hang up on oil. Also consider this: you (your body) will need a LOOOOOOOOT more water than your gun will oil.

well I think I already said use motor oil like the Taliban does...in SHTF, I do not want to worry about if my gun is too dirty or lubed at any given moment...the fact the body will need more is even more of a reason (in my opinion) to have a reliable piston gun that stays lubed longer and is immediately adjustable if it gets sluggish. As long as YOU are comfortable with your decisions, is all that matters.

Another point, NO semi-auto gun, to my knowledge, will run for any extended amount of time completely dry. Sure, a Glock or a piston operated rifle may run for a few more rounds than a 1911, Sig, or DI rifle, but not years and years of constant usage more.

I am not advocating that...but the lube will stay in there longer if it isn't being burned off by hot gas...you and I both know that...you are biased to DI. I was unbiased and did a lot of honest comparison to form my opinion. If I had gotten a DI rifle (due to parts, weight, authenticity, etc.), I'd still espouse the exact same opinions as I have in this thread but append "but I still chose DI for this reason and am not concerned about SHTF as much, yadda, yadda, yadda..." Again, I can't ignore the 800lb elephant in the room once I started looking into this...

 

[Istandalone]

Thanks for the pic. Clearly not part of the block. Research tells me it might be a diy from a fsb.

I doubt HK would sell it to you. As you can see in the pic below, the bayonet mount is an added on part and is not part of the gas block.