Is this "the" case for requiring private gun sales background checks?

[mugsy]

Take a look at the linked article or read the text below about the disturbing case of a recently released felon, who apparently has murdered his grandparents and is now actively seeking guns - which he presumably cannot acquire through any source that requires a background check.

Is this "the" case that drives home the point UBC supporters like to make?
Is this the case that many who engage in private sales fear most - i.e. the possibility of inadvertently arming a dangerous person?
Does this give anyone pause or are there creative suggestions on how to deal with such situations?
Would some kind of non-recorded background check system for private sales be useful to prevent a man like this from arming himself, at least, without going to the trouble of trying to expose himself to more risk via criminal activity?
BTW - let's also be honest, look at the guy - I'll bet his appearance wouldn't set off many OSA'ers "criminal radar". Does that affect the opinion of those who say "I won't sell if anything looks wrong" - i.e. does it make you want a (more) objective means to weigh a buyer?

No flaming - just your opinions. I respect everyone's right to state what they think as long as it is a reasoned opinion and I am NOT taking a side to start the discussion just asking questions. I simply started ruminating when I read this piece earlier today and wanted to share/hear from OSAers on same.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/03/12/police-believe-wash-felon-killed-grandparents-after-welcome-home-from-prison/?test=latestnews

Note the second, seventh, and eighth paragraphs (some of the "paragraphs" are one sentence - hey I didn't write the article I just read it) comments about not having guns but actively seeking them and searching gun shows on the internet.

Here's the text for the link impaired:

Police believe Wash. felon killed grandparents after 'welcome home' from prison party
Published March 12, 2013
Associated Press
View attachment 27968
This photo provided by the King County sheriff’s office shows Michael "Chad" Boysen. (AP)
Police surround a home after an elderly couple was found dead. (q13 fox)
Next Slide Previous Slide A convicted felon is on the run after allegedly killing his grandparents as they hosted a party to celebrate his release from a Washington state prison.

Michael "Chad" Boysen, 26, is considered extremely dangerous and has tried to obtain guns, police said Monday. Q13 Fox reports Boysen has also made threats against law enforcement and community leaders, according to police.

Boysen was released from prison Friday after serving several years for robbery. His grandparents, 82-year-old Robert Taylor and 80-year-old Norma Taylor, picked him up from prison and hosted a family "welcome home party" for him that night, Q13 Fox reports.

The grandparents were killed later Friday or early Saturday at their Renton home. Authorities believe Boysen also stole their car.

“This is an exceedingly heinous crime any way you look at it, and I think the risk that’s out there is extreme right now,” King County Sheriff John Urquhart told Q13 Fox.

The sheriff said the grandparents were not shot, but he declined to provide other details about their killings, pending autopsies.

Detectives believe Boysen is trying to find weapons, and Urquhart said authorities do not believe he had a gun when he left the crime scene. Boysen had been searching the Internet for "gun shows" across the Northwest and Nevada, the sheriff's office said.

“Basically right now we have a person that’s very, very dangerous on the run that we believe is trying to obtain weapons to kill citizens and police officers and corrections officers,” Urquhart told Q13 Fox. ”We need to catch this guy."

Boysen had been in prison since 2006 on three robbery convictions in King County, said Judy Feliciano of the state Corrections Department.

He was released Friday from the prison at Monroe, about 35 miles north of Renton, and was supposed to check in with a community supervision officer within 24 hours, she said.

Boysen's grandparents had fixed up a room in their home for him to sleep in his first night out of prison, said Sgt. Cindi West, a sheriff's spokeswoman. Boysen was planning to stay elsewhere after that.

"We are at a loss as to why he killed them," Urquhart said. "We don't know what the motive is."

Boysen is 5-foot-10, weighs 170 pounds and has hazel eyes. He may be driving his grandparents' red, 2001 Chrysler 300, with Washington license plate 046XXU.

A warrant has been issued for Boysen's arrest. If he's stopped anywhere in the country, law enforcement officers will know he's a wanted man, state Corrections Department spokesman Chad Lewis said.

Click for more from Q13 Fox.

The Associated Press contributed to this report.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/03/1...me-from-prison/?test=latestnews#ixzz2NKtbn2Zp

 

[twoguns?]

Or is it Somebody...just writing to try to make it THE case

..sounds really froggy

.no gun,not killed with gun ,heck maybe Granpa was lookin at gunshows

 

[tweetr]

Detectives believe Boysen is trying to find weapons . . .

Well, no shiite, Sherlock! Of course he is trying to find weapons. Everybody is trying to find weapons. I am trying to find weapons. My seventy-year-old mother is trying to find weapons. What are the detectives more worried about: the trying to find weapons, -- or the murders?

 

[n8thegr8]

But guys, it's just common sense! We should deny a class of people their natural rights! So long as it's "them", and not me, it's all groovy!

 

[grizzly97]

This story proves zero case for UBC's! No gun was used in the crime, and they are presuming he will look for one. Like Tweetr said...no ****...everyone is looking for one! Even if he does buy one from a private sale, he's still breaking the law anyways since he's not allowed to have one. One more law placed on the shoulders of the law abiding will do nothing to prevent criminals from obtaining firearms.

 

[mugsy]

This story proves zero case for UBC's! No gun was used in the crime, and they are presuming he will look for one. Like Tweetr said...no ****...everyone is looking for one! Even if he does buy one from a private sale, he's still breaking the law anyways since he's not allowed to have one. One more law placed on the shoulders of the law abiding will do nothing to prevent criminals from obtaining firearms.

Well, while I share your sentiment, isn't your statement here full of holes? A background check requirement would have presented a significant obstacle to him (he has been arrested since - it was in today's news) from legally obtaining a gun because he would have been unable to simply lie to the seller and for the exact same reason that he was unable to just waltz into a gun store, say "I'm good-to-go" and buy a gun? I realize that if both the seller and buyer were in cahoots to break the law then yes, you are correct, an illegal transfer will occur anyway.

Notice I didn't exaggerate and say a BC would have "prevented" a purchase it is just an obstacle to easily obtaining weapon by those who are in some disqualifying category.
My greatest fear is that rather than seek a workable system, usable by non-FFL and without a record keeping system attached, the push will be for essentially expanding the FFL requirement to all sales/purchases along with an attendent record keeping requirement. That would, in my opinion, be the beginnings of a national registration system and be a very abd development.

 

[grizzly97]

Well, while I share your sentiment, isn't your statement here full of holes? A background check requirement would have presented a significant obstacle to him (he has been arrested since - it was in today's news) from legally obtaining a gun because he would have been unable to simply lie to the seller and for the exact same reason that he was unable to just waltz into a gun store, say "I'm good-to-go" and buy a gun? I realize that if both the seller and buyer were in cahoots to break the law then yes, you are correct, an illegal transfer will occur anyway.

Notice I didn't exaggerate and say a BC would have "prevented" a purchase it is just an obstacle to easily obtaining weapon by those who are in some disqualifying category.
My greatest fear is that rather than seek a workable system, usable by non-FFL and without a record keeping system attached, the push will be for essentially expanding the FFL requirement to all sales/purchases along with an attendent record keeping requirement. That would, in my opinion, be the beginnings of a national registration system and be a very abd development.

I understand where you are coming from, but seeing as how he was a criminal beforehand, he more than likely knows other deviants (sp?) and where to obtain a firearm from someone that doesn't give a crap about the law. It, IMHO, will be the exact same as the "war on drugs" or prohibition. Legal or not, there is always a way to obtain your desired object.

 

[caojyn]

UPDATE:

http://news.yahoo.com/man-sought-2-deaths-captured-ore-motel-033619610.html

LINCOLN CITY, Ore. (AP) — Police stormed a motel room in a seaside town Tuesday evening and captured a Washington state man suspected of killing his grandparents, ending a multistate search and a tense daylong standoff at the motel.
Officers found Michael Boysen lying on the floor on his back with apparently serious self-inflicted cuts, Lincoln City police Chief Keith Kilian said.
The 26-year-old man was flown to Legacy Emanuel Medical Center in Portland.
Hospital spokeswoman Judy Pahl described his condition as critical shortly after he arrived late Tuesday night.
No officers were hurt in the standoff, which Kilian termed "very successful." Law enforcement officials in Washington state had described Boysen as extremely dangerous.
The bodies of Boysen's grandparents were found Saturday in their suburban Seattle home, a day after Boysen was released from prison and was greeted with a welcome home party. After those deaths were discovered, officials say they learned that Boysen had made threats against his relatives and law enforcement officials while behind bars.
Police spent much of Tuesday trying to persuade Boysen to surrender. After breaching the motel room door, they stormed in and captured him.
"We're certainly glad it's over and nobody else got hurt. We're glad they were able to take him into custody alive," King County Sheriff John Urquhart said in Seattle shortly after the capture.
During Tuesday's siege in the Oregon tourist town of Lincoln City, police pointed rifles at the motel, fired blasts from a water cannon to break the windows of Boysen's second-floor room and used a bullhorn to try to get him to give up. The Oregonian reports they also used tear gas.
Police used a robot equipped with a video camera and a microphone to communicate with him. The robot was sent onto a balcony outside the motel room. Police breached the door and were able to communicate with Boysen through the robot.
When Boysen didn't come out on his own, police went in after him.
"We tried to negotiate," Kilian said. "We saw an opening that didn't compromise the safety of our officers."
Boysen checked into the WestShore OceanFront Suites on Monday night under his own name but wasn't recognized until Tuesday morning, when a motel employee saw a television story about the case and called police, Kilian said.
Boysen made threats against members of his family and law enforcement while locked up, Washington state Corrections Department spokesman Chad Lewis said Tuesday. But police didn't learn of the threats until after the bodies of the grandparents were found and authorities had started looking for Boysen.
"Sources went to our staff at the Monroe Correctional Center and told us he had been threatening to do all this," Lewis said.
The information was passed on to King County deputies, and that's why Sheriff Urquhart called Boysen extremely dangerous at a Monday news conference. Investigators also determined that Boysen had been searching the Internet for gun shows.
Boysen just finished serving nine months in prison on a burglary conviction, Lewis said. He had no violent infractions in prison — "nothing extraordinary," Lewis said.
He served a previous sentence between 2006 and February 2011 for four robbery convictions. Those convictions were related to an addiction to narcotic painkillers, Lewis said.
Boysen's grandparents picked him up from prison Friday and drove him to meet his probation officer and to get an identification card from the Department of Licensing. They held a welcome home party for him Friday night.
Boysen's mother discovered the bodies Saturday evening. She had been called by a family member who became concerned that the couple hadn't answered their door.
Authorities haven't said how they died.
The motive for the killings remains unknown, King County sheriff's Sgt. Cindi West said.
"Between the family and detectives we have no idea," she said. "It's just bizarre. The family loved and supported him the whole time he was in prison."
On Tuesday, the King County medical examiner's office identified the couple as Robert R. Taylor, 82, and Norma J. Taylor, 80. They died Saturday. The cause and manner of their deaths remains under investigation, the medical examiner said.
Urquhart said it was not known why Boysen fled to Oregon.
"We didn't know he had gone to Oregon, had no particular reason to look there."
King County sent two detectives to Oregon to talk with Boysen, Urquhart said. He'll have to go through extradition, then King County hopes to "get him back here for trial," the sheriff said Tuesday evening.

No mention of firearms

 

[Shadowrider]

While I think due diligence is just common sense, hypothetically I would feel no responsibility if someone lied to me and I ended up selling him a gun. He's the criminal not me! We really need to get off this bandwagon and start putting the responsibility where it belongs and holding those accountable I.E. the freaking criminals! If you sold a set of kitchen knives to Jeffery Dahmer would you feel in any way responsible for his actions? I think not...

 

[abajaj11]

... I realize that if both the seller and buyer were in cahoots to break the law then yes, you are correct, an illegal transfer will occur anyway.

Notice I didn't exaggerate and say a BC would have "prevented" a purchase it is just an obstacle to easily obtaining weapon by those who are in some disqualifying category.
My greatest fear is that rather than seek a workable system, usable by non-FFL and without a record keeping system attached, the push will be for essentially expanding the FFL requirement to all sales/purchases along with an attendent record keeping requirement. That would, in my opinion, be the beginnings of a national registration system and be a very abd development.

The problem is that, IMHO, it is impossible to monitor a system that requires/mandates that all sales undergo a background check, without knowing who owns what already. Otherwise how would anyone even know that a sale had taken place?
If we are just relying on the goodness of the seller to do a background check, then that is impractical from a legal enforcement standpoint.
The only solution is a database of who owns what.
Otherwise, we can all just accept that UBCs will not prevent crimes, and move on.
Also, the "even if one life were saved..." argument that liberals put forward is totally hoaky IMHO. This is similar to saying that we should monitor and control burger and fries consumption in the USA, even if one life can be saved from it.
. Should government be allowed to monitor food intake and the amount we exercise, so that some lives may be saved? You'll be surprised how many progressives will say yes!