LEO and open carry

[ExSniper]

Searched and found nothing like this. Ok I want to see what our LEO members have to say about this subject. If you are LEO please if you would start out your post with I am LEO and I " fill in the blank " Thank you LEO's in advance for your participation.

He asked for LEO opinions and the LEOs are getting blasted for having one. I am a Police Officer and support the 2nd Amendment, that does not mean that I think we cannot have laws that limit the means of exercise of some rights. It is stupid and dangerous to shout "Fire!" in a crowded building, therefore it is not a protected exercise of your 1st amendment rights.
I have nothing against open carry other than to say I do not think it is a good idea for most people. When open carry becomes widely practiced we will be able to develop and track data on its effectiveness and the possible dangers associated with the practice. I know it is legal in some forms in many places but it is rarely practiced on a large scale that will allow for relevant statistical samples. I do worry about the unskilled and untrained retaining their weapon in a struggle and becoming easy targets for those trying to steal your firearm. I've read many on this forum say they want open carry passed so they do not have to worry about printing or flashing. If you are not skilled nor competent enough to keep your weapon concealed, what makes you think you are capable of handling the awesome responsibility of carrying openly?
I have carried weapons daily for the last 38 years, either openly or concealed, and have dealt with disarming attempts but never had contact with any official for a case of printing or flashing my concealed weapons. Hidden from detection or view is not that difficult, often weapons retention of an openly carried firearm is!

I understand it might be nice to carry openly on your own property. I see little need for everyone to be carrying openly while strolling along the canal in Bricktown. The one question I have not been able to get answered by any open carry supporter: "Other than because it is your right, why do you want to carry openly?" I think it might be nice for everyone to carry openly sometimes so they can show off their BBQ guns and rigs, but this is really only valid at gatherings of large numbers of "gun people" because the hoplophobes will not appreciate your rig anyway!


I will continue to carry concealed when off-duty and not in uniform if open carry is approved. If you choose to open carry PLEASE get some weapon retention training.

 

[BadgeBunny]

Well, ExSniper ... it IS the OSA way, ya know! LOL

 

[oklacowboy]

He asked for LEO opinions and the LEOs are getting blasted for having one. I am a Police Officer and support the 2nd Amendment, that does not mean that I think we cannot have laws that limit the means of exercise of some rights. It is stupid and dangerous to shout "Fire!" in a crowded building, therefore it is not a protected exercise of your 1st amendment rights.
I have nothing against open carry other than to say I do not think it is a good idea for most people. When open carry becomes widely practiced we will be able to develop and track data on its effectiveness and the possible dangers associated with the practice. I know it is legal in some forms in many places but it is rarely practiced on a large scale that will allow for relevant statistical samples. I do worry about the unskilled and untrained retaining their weapon in a struggle and becoming easy targets for those trying to steal your firearm. I've read many on this forum say they want open carry passed so they do not have to worry about printing or flashing. If you are not skilled nor competent enough to keep your weapon concealed, what makes you think you are capable of handling the awesome responsibility of carrying openly?
I have carried weapons daily for the last 38 years, either openly or concealed, and have dealt with disarming attempts but never had contact with any official for a case of printing or flashing my concealed weapons. Hidden from detection or view is not that difficult, often weapons retention of an openly carried firearm is!

I understand it might be nice to carry openly on your own property. I see little need for everyone to be carrying openly while strolling along the canal in Bricktown. The one question I have not been able to get answered by any open carry supporter: "Other than because it is your right, why do you want to carry openly?" I think it might be nice for everyone to carry openly sometimes so they can show off their BBQ guns and rigs, but this is really only valid at gatherings of large numbers of "gun people" because the hoplophobes will not appreciate your rig anyway!


I will continue to carry concealed when off-duty and not in uniform if open carry is approved. If you choose to open carry PLEASE get some weapon retention training.

Well I think I understand what you are trying to say. So you think I need to go to Bricktown and open carry so I can show off my gun. That ain't true. I can only speak for myself, but I don't need to go anywhere and show off my gun. Then you think we need to gather in large groups and show off our guns to each other. I don't think so, at least not me. Training is great and I am all for it. I don't think any of us could ever have enough training. But I am plenty capable of taking care of the retention of my weapon.

 

[oklacowboy]

Well, ExSniper ... it IS the OSA way, ya know! LOL

Not for me

 

[mons meg]

I would clarify this as you may oppose, but may not infringe upon my chosen carry method. Opposition is fine... it means the holding of an opinion and working towards having that adopted.

Thanks, trDoc, you captured my intent, if not my words. I fully support GED's right to have his opinion as a private citizen.

And, FWIW, I too would likely only open carry on my own property or in non-urban situations.

 

[Werewolf]

"Other than because it is your right, why do you want to carry openly?"

I will respect ExSniper's request not to address the rights issue as I have already addressed it many times.

That said:

The main reason I would choose to OC is that the general population (whether we choose to acknowledge it or not) is of a mind that only the military and the police should be permitted to have and carry guns for purposes other than recreation or hunting (and yes that's true even in Oklahoma). They believe that if trouble happens the police will be there in time to do what is necessary to protect them from bad men; assuming they even give that a 2nd thought as most people are of a nature that denial that anything bad could ever happen to them or theirs is their normal state of mind.

The very notion that individuals should be responsible for their own defense is foreign to them; it goes against their very natures. The sight of a fellow citizen walking around with the means to protect themselves is anathema as it is a vivid reminder of their choice to let others assume the responsibility for their safety and defense. The gun those people see on your hip is that reminder. The gun creates both fear and, what is rarely acknowledged, self loathing in those that see it. Those feelings create opposition to the gun. That opposition needs to be addressed and made to go away.

As paradoxical as it may seem if open carry becomes common enough the general population will become desensitized to the practice. The more common place the practice the less opposition to it there will be and it is not outside the realm of possibility that that could lead to rights that have been eroded over many years, that have been wrongfully infringed or outright taken away might be returned.

Another reason for open carry is this:

Dave Grossman LTC USA (Ret) wrote in his article: On Sheep, Wolves, and Sheepdogs

There was research conducted a few years ago with individuals convicted of violent crimes. These cons were in prison for serious, predatory crimes of violence: assaults, murders and killing law enforcement officers. The vast majority said that they specifically targeted victims by body language: slumped walk, passive behavior and lack of awareness. They chose their victims like big cats do in Africa, when they select one out of the herd that is least able to protect itself.

I've instinctively known this all my life - predators, be they animal or human, prey on the weak, not the strong. I firmly believe that OC will act as a deterent. I believe the deterent factor outweighs the tactical surprise that concealed carry provides. Add to that that presentation is quicker from OC than Concealed and for me it's an easy choice. Ooops - there's that word again - choice. Kind'a hard to get away from it isn't it?

 

[pak-40]

When seconds count, and my life is in danger, the police are only MINUTES away. THAT is why I am armed. It is to make sure I am on more even terms with a potential attacker. I WILL project my life, and the lives of my wife and children at all costs.

OC will give me another slight edge. I can draw more quickly from OWB than IWB. It goes back to that "seconds counting" thing. In a life or death situation, even fractions of seconds can count. When OC passes (I'm an optimist!), I can choose the holster that is the very best for me. Right now, my options are quite limited by the existing laws.

Fact is, my gun will still be MOSTLY concealed and most people will still not know Im carrying. It will be nice not to worry about breaking the law if the wind is blowing too hard.

 

[gerhard1]

He asked for LEO opinions and the LEOs are getting blasted for having one. I am a Police Officer and support the 2nd Amendment, that does not mean that I think we cannot have laws that limit the means of exercise of some rights. It is stupid and dangerous to shout "Fire!" in a crowded building, therefore it is not a protected exercise of your 1st amendment rights.
I have nothing against open carry other than to say I do not think it is a good idea for most people. When open carry becomes widely practiced we will be able to develop and track data on its effectiveness and the possible dangers associated with the practice. I know it is legal in some forms in many places but it is rarely practiced on a large scale that will allow for relevant statistical samples. I do worry about the unskilled and untrained retaining their weapon in a struggle and becoming easy targets for those trying to steal your firearm. I've read many on this forum say they want open carry passed so they do not have to worry about printing or flashing. If you are not skilled nor competent enough to keep your weapon concealed, what makes you think you are capable of handling the awesome responsibility of carrying openly?
I have carried weapons daily for the last 38 years, either openly or concealed, and have dealt with disarming attempts but never had contact with any official for a case of printing or flashing my concealed weapons. Hidden from detection or view is not that difficult, often weapons retention of an openly carried firearm is!

I understand it might be nice to carry openly on your own property. I see little need for everyone to be carrying openly while strolling along the canal in Bricktown. The one question I have not been able to get answered by any open carry supporter: "Other than because it is your right, why do you want to carry openly?" I think it might be nice for everyone to carry openly sometimes so they can show off their BBQ guns and rigs, but this is really only valid at gatherings of large numbers of "gun people" because the hoplophobes will not appreciate your rig anyway!


I will continue to carry concealed when off-duty and not in uniform if open carry is approved. If you choose to open carry PLEASE get some weapon retention training.

I'd pretty much agree with this. If OC does become law, about the only place I'd OC is on my 80 acres in Grant County.

 

[oklacowboy]

Werewolf, pak-40 yall got it right. I couldnt agree more.

 

[Glocktogo]

He asked for LEO opinions and the LEOs are getting blasted for having one. I am a Police Officer and support the 2nd Amendment, that does not mean that I think we cannot have laws that limit the means of exercise of some rights. It is stupid and dangerous to shout "Fire!" in a crowded building, therefore it is not a protected exercise of your 1st amendment rights.
I have nothing against open carry other than to say I do not think it is a good idea for most people. When open carry becomes widely practiced we will be able to develop and track data on its effectiveness and the possible dangers associated with the practice. I know it is legal in some forms in many places but it is rarely practiced on a large scale that will allow for relevant statistical samples. I do worry about the unskilled and untrained retaining their weapon in a struggle and becoming easy targets for those trying to steal your firearm. I've read many on this forum say they want open carry passed so they do not have to worry about printing or flashing. If you are not skilled nor competent enough to keep your weapon concealed, what makes you think you are capable of handling the awesome responsibility of carrying openly?
I have carried weapons daily for the last 38 years, either openly or concealed, and have dealt with disarming attempts but never had contact with any official for a case of printing or flashing my concealed weapons. Hidden from detection or view is not that difficult, often weapons retention of an openly carried firearm is!

I understand it might be nice to carry openly on your own property. I see little need for everyone to be carrying openly while strolling along the canal in Bricktown. The one question I have not been able to get answered by any open carry supporter: "Other than because it is your right, why do you want to carry openly?" I think it might be nice for everyone to carry openly sometimes so they can show off their BBQ guns and rigs, but this is really only valid at gatherings of large numbers of "gun people" because the hoplophobes will not appreciate your rig anyway!


I will continue to carry concealed when off-duty and not in uniform if open carry is approved. If you choose to open carry PLEASE get some weapon retention training.

I agree with everything you wrote, except the bolded part. It wasn't too long in the past that open carry was reasonable and practical under certain circumstances. Farmers, ranchers, hikers, fishermen, people who lived in rural areas where a gun was a tool for more than repelling humans, etc. Outdoor activities lend themselves well to open carry. Back when this was a commonly accepted practice, it was the people carrying concealed that were considered gangsters and thugs. I think having a law against open carry is not taking these things into consideration.