Let's have some fun! The 1980's aircraft carrier Nimitz vs the Japanese Dec 7th, 1941 and the aftermath

[turkeyrun]

WHen th

A7s, A6s, EC2s, F14s, These would be third and fourth-generation jet fighters in a world that hadn’t seen the first generation. Missile and bombing technology for both propulsion and targeting will have to be reengineered as well as the airborne electronics and engines. Airborne refueling was a mature tech by that time too. Some or all systems could be reverse-engineered.

The transistor function was still a vacuum tube in 1941 Television had not been invented and radio was in its heyday although it was still the AM band. We did not have the resources to keep spare parts flowing to a 1980s warship let alone the planes on board.

What about the books, magazines, all printed material on the past from the perspective of the Nimitz would have to be confiscated because unscrupulous people could have prior knowledge of when events or discoveries could happen and cash in controlling markets and even countries fortunes if the Nimitz had not thwarted the history of them.

Computers in 1980s were second generation and had not yet achieved much more than word processing, databases and advanced calculator abilities.

My father worked with the IBM System 7 and System 3 and Sperry Univacs 9000 series that took up entire rooms. It took days to print out invoices to the customers they had and that was at three dot matrix lines per second. Dad showed me the new printer they had acquired they were really proud of. It spit out pages at 5 pages per second along with the autofolder/stuffing machine they had to buy to keep up with the printer. They could now print invoices in a day.

When the company put the first IBM on my desk ( '83-'84 I think), the tech setting it up, says, "oooo, you got the 40 Meg hard drive, most just got 20 Meg. You will NEVER need to upgrade."

My laptop has 2T, a 'slight' upgrade.

 

[Duncandl]

Going to rewatch it tonight!

35 years with the Naval Aviation Enterprise this is gonna be fun.

 

[SoonerP226]

Would the E2C's verification of the Japanese carrier group NW of Hawaii bearing SE be evidence enough for a US Navy Captain to launch a strike force against them? That is what he did.

Andy Stumpf was actually talking about rules of engagement on last Friday's episode of his podcast. IIRC, he said hostile intent was always enough to allow engagement, and one of the examples of hostile intent that he gave was of a military-aged male carry ammo to an enemy position.

It seems to me that all Capt. Yelland would need to justify the attack is to follow the Jap aircraft long enough to show that they were on a heading towards Pearl; that would show hostile intent, then they could start blasting away.

 

[SoonerP226]

By the way, if something like that really happened, I suspect that the US would have avoided fighting Japan, and ended the European war years earlier. But who really knows. From what I understand the reactor only needs refueling every 20 to 25 years, so it would have sufficient time for technology to progress to be refueled.

If the Nimitz had gone back to the Pacific Theater, she could've made quick work of the Japanese. She's virtually unsinkable now; she would've been untouchable then. Even if you ground the fighters, her ASW, Electronic Warfare, and Attack aircraft would severely outmatch the IJN. Just think about S-3 Vikings hunting IJN subs or Intruders hunting their capital ships with the Hawkeye directing them--or park her in the Pacific and have Prowlers impose radio silence on the Japanese home islands.

 

[Snattlerake]

Andy Stumpf was actually talking about rules of engagement on last Friday's episode of his podcast. IIRC, he said hostile intent was always enough to allow engagement, and one of the examples of hostile intent that he gave was of a military-aged male carry ammo to an enemy position.

It seems to me that all Capt. Yelland would need to justify the attack is to follow the Jap aircraft long enough to show that they were on a heading towards Pearl; that would show hostile intent, then they could start blasting away.

That would do what, kill off the entire 400 some odd planes that were headed there to Pearl and sink all the carriers? I think a percentage would get through to Pearl and still carry out the attack if we let them launch and head toward Pearl to prove intent. If we attacked the carriers before launch we would be hard pressed to prove intent.

One thing the film does not go into is the lives lost not having any impact on the future. In fact, the only mention of any person with any remorse was for Commander Richard Owens. Yelland told Lasky he had no family. The three crewmen on the Sea King, the marines defending the ship, the yacht captain and crew, the two Japanese pilots,and Senator Chapman, all dead, did I miss any?

We all know what happens in the ending which I will not go into yet.

 

[SoonerP226]

That would do what, kill off the entire 400 some odd planes that were headed there to Pearl and sink all the carriers? I think a percentage would get through to Pearl and still carry out the attack if we let them launch and head toward Pearl to prove intent. If we attacked the carriers before launch we would be hard pressed to prove intent.

Well, the other part of this is that the declaration of war was already in transit, and the Japanese wouldn't have had a way to know that their attack failed in time to stop it. As I recall, we had intercepted and decided their declaration before they did, so I don't think it would be difficult to show that sinking their carrier force happened while they were at war with us.

Of course, would stopping a sneak attack have gotten Americans as riled up as a successful sneak attack did?

 

[Snattlerake]

Well, the other part of this is that the declaration of war was already in transit, and the Japanese wouldn't have had a way to know that their attack failed in time to stop it. As I recall, we had intercepted and decided their declaration before they did, so I don't think it would be difficult to show that sinking their carrier force happened while they were at war with us.

Of course, would stopping a sneak attack have gotten Americans as riled up as a successful sneak attack did?

Good point. I thought it was delayed because the Japs had trouble decoding their own message.

It took over two hours to decode then they also had to wait for the ambassador or secretary to receive them. It was delivered 20 minutes after the attack.

 

[SoonerP226]

I thought it was delayed because the Japs had trouble decoding their own message.

That's my recollection of the story.

 

[Jason Freeland]

That's my recollection of the story.

Pretty much tracks with my memory. I think they had dismissed the usual crypto staff and were decoding it with the higher ups, for security. That was the reason for the slow decoding. It's been a while since I read up on it though.