Marine Shooting Update

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penismightier

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****Please keep this civil as to not get this thread locked****

Update with video from incident

http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/05/27/arizona.marine.death/index.html




Video:

http://www.kgun9.com/story/14736691/raw-video-pcsd-helmet-cam-clip-shows-swat-raid-and-firefight





Tucson, Arizona (CNN) -- A U.S. Marine who died in a flurry of bullets during a drug raid near Tucson never fired on the SWAT team that stormed his house, a report by the Pima County Sheriff's Department shows.

The revelation was contained in an internal investigation released by the department Thursday.

Jose Guerena died May 5 after a SWAT team descended on his home in a Tucson suburb with a search warrant. His home was one of four believed to be associated with a drug smuggling operation in the area.

A video released Thursday by the sheriff's department shows the uniformed SWAT team pulling up outside his house, sounding their sirens, banging on the front door -- before kicking it in -- and opening fire shortly after entering the home.

Watch video on CNN affiliate KGUN9

Officers fired more than 70 shots, the investigation showed. Deputies said they opened fire after Guerena, 26, gestured at them with an AR-15 -- a semiautomatic rifle.

Some of the officers said they believed that Guerena fired on them, but the investigation showed that no shots were fired from the weapon and it was never taken off the safety position.

Initial news reports indicated that he had been struck by more than 60 bullets. However, CNN has seen an initial report from the medical examiner that details 22 bullet wounds.

A lawyer representing the deputies defended their actions.

"They absolutely responded how they were trained. They responded within Arizona laws, within the law throughout the nation," attorney Mike Storie said.

"If you are faced with that type of deadly threat, you're allowed to respond."

Guerena served in Iraq and was discharged from the Marines five years ago. He was working for a mining company in the Tucson area.

But authorities allege he also was involved in drug smuggling, strong-armed robberies and human smuggling.

A search of the home after the shooting revealed nothing illegal, although officers found weapons and body armor.

The five deputies involved in the shooting remain on active duty. No criminal charges have been filed and no disciplinary action taken.

The findings of the investigation are detailed in a five-inch thick report, including a 60-page statement from Guerena's wife, Vanessa, who was in the home at the time of the shooting along with a young son.

In addition to the video, the sheriff's department also released audio of Guerena calling 911 to get medical attention for her husband. Audio of the SWAT team's radio conversations was also included.

She has retained a lawyer, but no legal action has been taken.

"We just learned that the sheriff's department has released voluminous amounts of information in respect to this incident," said Guerena attorney Chris Scileppi. "We will review the documents and CDs, and will make ourselves available for comment in the near future."
 

SMS

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Former Marine...discharged 5 years ago. Irrelevant to the facts of the case. Why do people keep trying to inject and lead with this emotional aspect?

If you are holding a gun, or pointing a gun, when police execute a raid where you happen to be....expect to be shot. That falls into common sense 101.

Justification for the raid is a seperate discussion.
 

jhawknokc

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The initial report made it sound like they didn't know who it was. My initial reaction to the first story that came out was that they were awaken out of their sleep to the sounds of somebody outsides. I would have grabbed my gun too. I hope more info comes out on this.
 

sigsilly

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Former Marine...discharged 5 years ago. Irrelevant to the facts of the case. Why do people keep trying to inject and lead with this emotional aspect?

If you are holding a gun, or pointing a gun, when police execute a raid where you happen to be....expect to be shot. That falls into common sense 101.

Justification for the raid is a seperate discussion.

It is not irrelevant. He had extensive training with a firearm at gov't expense and carried in a war. He responded to a threat with a weapon he was familiar with even though he never fired it.
That response was ingrained into him because of his service.
I believe it is very relevant.
 

SMS

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It is not irrelevant. He had extensive training with a firearm at gov't expense and carried in a war. He responded to a threat with a weapon he was familiar with even though he never fired it.
That response was ingrained into him because of his service.
I believe it is very relevant.

People are trying to paint the LEOs as bad guys for shooting a "Marine". As if his status as a "Marine" should overshadow the investigation into illegal activity. As I've said before, there are plenty of scumbags out there with DD214s and Honorable Discharge Certificates...and even a bunch with Active Duty ID cards.

My point is, an individual's military status, active or former, does not get you a pass or 'extra credit' when it comes to a criminal investigation. It might, however, buy you some extra heat when the boys come rolling in....if they are aware of your training and weapon skills.

Leading the story with "Police shoot Marine" injects emotion and distracts from the facts of the criminal investigation and the very legitimate conversation about the neccesity of raids such as this.
 

jhawknokc

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I agree they do it to get extra sentiment, and I 100% agree that the life of an LEO is a very hazardous occupation. I think I heard a report that one LEO is killed in the line of duty every 50 hours or so. I think this is an unfortunate story all the way around. I just watched the video and agree more with SMS on this one. I thought I read it was a middle of the night raid. It was daylight, they sounded their sirens, and even looked like they knocked. He had ample time to lay down his arms. Seemed like the shooting was a chain reaction, but that gun should have been on the ground.
 

EFsDad

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Leading the story with "Police shoot Marine" injects emotion and distracts from the facts of the criminal investigation and the very legitimate conversation about the necessity of raids such as this.

I don't think it's anyone's fault that the newspapers/media services want to sell ad space and therefore lead and stretch the truth in order to sell more.

Here is where the legitimate conversations occur.

One quick question, what would you have done if in the Marine's shoes given the details that we have at this time?
 

penismightier

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I don't think it's anyone's fault that the newspapers/media services want to sell ad space and therefore lead and stretch the truth in order to sell more.

Here is where the legitimate conversations occur.

One quick question, what would you have done if in the Marine's shoes given the details that we have at this time?

Assuming I can't make it to the door in time to open it for them, I'd drop that gun as fast as possible and stay the hell away from it!!!
 

SMS

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One quick question, what would you have done if in the Marine's shoes given the details that we have at this time?

If I were in the former Marine's shoes and heard sirens and knocks on my front door (in the video, they knock at least twice), I would've answered the door and wouldn't have pointed a rifle at people dressed like police officers.

Now flip it around. If you were a current member of the SWAT team executing a raid on a suspected drug smuggler, strong-arm robber, human smuggler and former Marine, and you were confronted with a man gesturing at you with an AR15 what would you have done?
 

jhawknokc

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If I were in the former Marine's shoes and heard sirens and knocks on my front door (in the video, they knock at least twice), I would've answered the door and wouldn't have pointed a rifle at people dressed like police officers.

Now flip it around. If you were a current member of the SWAT team executing a raid on a suspected drug smuggler, strong-arm robber, human smuggler and former Marine, and you were confronted with a man gesturing at you with an AR15 what would you have done?

+1

+1
 
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