Martini Henry

[Josh G]

Hello guys. Looking for some input here.
I'm thinking of selling a mk 4 martini henry made by Enfield to raise some cash. It is one of the Nepal cache ones from IMA I got several years ago. Functions perfectly but looks a little rough on the outside (80% blue/ patina, solid stock with minor damage, clean bore with no visible pits or rust) I see them on gun broker selling for all over the place, so in your opinion, what is the current going rate on these locally? Thanks for the feedback!!

 

[Fr Mulcahy]

Hello guys. Looking for some input here.
I'm thinking of selling a mk 4 martini henry made by Enfield to raise some cash. It is one of the Nepal cache ones from IMA I got several years ago. Functions perfectly but looks a little rough on the outside (80% blue/ patina, solid stock with minor damage, clean bore with no visible pits or rust) I see them on gun broker selling for all over the place, so in your opinion, what is the current going rate on these locally? Thanks for the feedback!!

I bought one about a year ago for $800 through Gunbroker. I expect that about $700 locally would be about right.

You are going to be hampered by the fact that commercial ammo is not available. So the buyer will need to roll his own, and it takes time and effort and money to make black powder cartridges that are essentially wildcats in the modern world.

There are some gentlemen on this board who are highly knowledgeable about the M-H, and if you ask one of them nicely then you can get better answers than I can give, by far.

 

[capnkirk462]

WOW is that ammo expensive. But the do make an adapter https://www.theshootersbox.com/577450-Martini-Henry-to-45ACP-Caliber-Adapter_p_35361.html if it works would make it a pretty cool gun to own and shoot.

 

[Josh G]

WOW is that ammo expensive. But the do make an adapter https://www.theshootersbox.com/577450-Martini-Henry-to-45ACP-Caliber-Adapter_p_35361.html if it works would make it a pretty cool gun to own and shoot.

Yes, these make it much cheaper to shoot the old war horse. Kids sure enjoy shooting with the adapter. Not as fun as when I roll my own 577/450 M-H though.

 

[Fr Mulcahy]

WOW is that ammo expensive. But the do make an adapter https://www.theshootersbox.com/577450-Martini-Henry-to-45ACP-Caliber-Adapter_p_35361.html if it works would make it a pretty cool gun to own and shoot.

The adapters tend to crack after use, rendering them unusable.

 

[Josh G]

The adapters tend to crack after use, rendering them unusable.

I've heard that and it makes sense with it being 45 ACP. I've used the 45 colt adapter and only had problems with one of them and it was no surprise. It had massive amounts of chatter from machining. The other two adapters have had hundreds of rounds thru them with no problems other than getting dirty. Maybe I just got lucky with them.

 

[Fr Mulcahy]

I've heard that and it makes sense with it being 45 ACP. I've used the 45 colt adapter and only had problems with one of them and it was no surprise. It had massive amounts of chatter from machining. The other two adapters have had hundreds of rounds thru them with no problems other than getting dirty. Maybe I just got lucky with them.

How was the accuracy? I believe that the 45 LC bullet is several thousands of an inch smaller in diameter than the 577-450 bullet.

 

[Josh G]

Accuracy was okay-ish. I could hit a 10" steel gong at 75 yards. On paper, maybe 6-7" groups. Where to hold the sights was the biggest thing to get accustom too. Had some that shot pretty good and then the fliers would start showing up. Not a target setup by any means but something fun to go plink with.
Yes, 45 LC bullets are around 16 thou smaller than what you want so you're really not getting much in the way of engaging on the rifling. Had a squib load that I had to knock out with the cleaning rod so there is some type of fit, just not much.

 

[Ahall]

Before jumping into the world of Martin Henry you need to understand a few things.

1) 577/450 dates to the early days of metallic cartridges, and went through a lot of changes, including changes to the chamber dimensions. Machine work and precision measurement also were not what they are today, so adaptors are going to be hit and miss on fit. If you expect an adaptor to anything more than let the gun go bang as a novelty, you may be disappointed.

2) The English and Americans disagree on how to measure caliber - we chose the major dimension of the grooves, they like the minor dimensions of the lands (there 303 shoots a .311 projectile, but our 308 shoots a .308),
Bottom line, a 577/450 shots a projectile significantly larger than the 0.452 to 0.454 you push out of a 45-caliber pistol round. Sure, it goes bang, but engaging the rifling is going to be minimal. If you use dead soft lead it might obtrude enough to engage.

Some rifles chambered for 577/450 will engage the .458 diameter projectile used in a 45/70 (The Alexander Henry pattern Australian contract rifles made by Westley Richards are about .458, but that's because they were converted to use the 577/450). If you want it to perform, plan on a casting your own lead, learning about paper patching and all kinds of other fun stuff and you plan to roll your own for the old warhorse.

3) If you want to reload it, get ready - the 577/450 case has roughly the same head and body diameter for a 577 nitro express. Thats too big for a 7/8 - 14 thread on the reloading die. Lee made dies with the same body diameter as the threaded insert for some RCBS presses. Others have made dies in other thread sizes and pitches. Bottom line is the reloading dies don't fit in many presses.

4) Ok you read this far, so you're willing to think about reloading the old fat boy. Brass - limited commercial availability and expensive. A few folks have worked out how to reform 28 ga Magtech full brass shotgun shells into 577/450. I have seen it for sale on the British Military Forums.

5) Now you have brass - what's the load data? I have never seen anything on a smokeless load that I trusted. When I looked into it, folks load with black powder, and those who used Mag Tec cases had issues with excess case volumes. Thats right - the mag tec case has more internal capacity than the original foil cases and the general wisdom with black powder is to lightly compress the charge. No air space.


It's a challenge to make ammo for the old warhorses to shoot, but you will probably be the only one at the range doing it.

Having done all the work to shoot one, including reforming the mag tec brass, I will say that I don't find the recoil uncomfortable, but the grip is awkward. Other designs of the era are more comfortable to hold.

 

[Ahall]

The MK 4s were the last pattern and saw little use, as they were quickly replaced by the Lee Enfield/ Lee Medford family of rifles. They do tend to be in better shape than their predecessors but have less historical interest.

Top of the market will be IMA's current price of about $1000.
Thats a nationally advertised price from a major retailer and they are still trying to get rid of them 15 years after they hit the market, so don't hold your breath waiting for that kind of number. Remember, they were selling for about $400 several years ago when IMA had crates of dirty ones.

Unless they are pristine or have some special place in history, major auction houses just sell them in lots with other guns and put auction estimates that average 300 to 500 per gun.

Fact is, it's a cool gun, but the issues with ammo, abundant supply, and lack of US history hold it back in the market.

Realistically, if you can get your money out of it, great. If you can get more, take it.