I was always under the impression that those did not have to be read to an individual unless they were to be questioned and their answers used in a trial situation.
If an officer watches you pee in the street and then smack your wife I don't think those will be read to you either.
Someone with more knowledge may have some more insight though.
If an officer watches you pee in the street and then smack your wife I don't think those will be read to you either.
Someone with more knowledge may have some more insight though.
DC-
The three SEALs are standing Courts Martial because they REQUESTED it. They were not singled out to be made an example but refused to accept Administrative punishment. That is their right under the UCMJ.
While much will be made of their 'crime' of striking a prisoner under their control, the real charges in the Military's eyes are making false statements.
They wouldnt have gotten more than an eye roll if they had just admitted yeah I punched the smug Pucker! Accepting UCMJ's AR-15 is a slap on the wrist- FOR LYING. Demanding a Courts Martial instead is on the enlisted men's head.
Flat-
Be advised, continual playing with your libdar sensitively lever will cause you to go blind! I suggest you purchase a Vetar unit, I'll ping it everytime- no need to fiddle with your lever!
The three SEALs are standing Courts Martial because they REQUESTED it. They were not singled out to be made an example but refused to accept Administrative punishment. That is their right under the UCMJ.
While much will be made of their 'crime' of striking a prisoner under their control, the real charges in the Military's eyes are making false statements.
They wouldnt have gotten more than an eye roll if they had just admitted yeah I punched the smug Pucker! Accepting UCMJ's AR-15 is a slap on the wrist- FOR LYING. Demanding a Courts Martial instead is on the enlisted men's head.
Flat-
Be advised, continual playing with your libdar sensitively lever will cause you to go blind! I suggest you purchase a Vetar unit, I'll ping it everytime- no need to fiddle with your lever!
WRONG!!
Can't let that gross mistake go by. Been there, done that as a military commander.
The UCMJ specifies the maximum punishment allowed under Article 15 based on the category of the offense and the commander's rank.
Losing a couple of stripes and spending months in the crowbar hotel is NOT a slap on the wrist.
The defense counsel probably saw a weak, disorganized case and intends to win the court martial. A good commander will never offer Article 15 unless he has them cold for a serious court martial offense, and I think this commander screwed up.
I feel enlightened now on the subject.
Thanks for filling the holes in my understanding!
Thanks for filling the holes in my understanding!
And I have stood on the other side of the desk.
The Officer has tremendous leeway in what punishment he gives. NOTHING says he MUST reduce rank, or have the EM forfiet any pay.
If you always threw the book at your men tells me alot about you.
Good troops messup, we are only human. Most AR15s have a few days forfieted pay and 2 weeks 'confined to barracks' which out in the field meant nada. Guys who were on a trajectory out of the army due to poor charactor got the max. FYI, I got a weeks pay and having to hump the Pric for the CO 2 weeks in the field.
Officers used to pride themselves as firm but fair. Recognize the man who stood before him. Pryck Officers on the otherhand...
The Officer has tremendous leeway in what punishment he gives. NOTHING says he MUST reduce rank, or have the EM forfiet any pay.
If you always threw the book at your men tells me alot about you.
Good troops messup, we are only human. Most AR15s have a few days forfieted pay and 2 weeks 'confined to barracks' which out in the field meant nada. Guys who were on a trajectory out of the army due to poor charactor got the max. FYI, I got a weeks pay and having to hump the Pric for the CO 2 weeks in the field.
Officers used to pride themselves as firm but fair. Recognize the man who stood before him. Pryck Officers on the otherhand...
You completely missed the point, and your uninformed attempts at personal insults are inappropriate.
MY Points:
1. The use of Article 15 by the commander was wrong, because Artice 15 is NOT trivial, and the punishment can be severe. It is to be used only "in lieu of court martial."
2. For those not schooled in military justice, the defendent can ony know what the MAXIMUM possible punishment is, not what he wil "really" get.
Thus it makes perfect sense for the accused in this case to refuse Article 15, and demand trial. The defense lawyer probably thinks he can win against such a weak case.
3. I handled a similar problem entirely differently from this seals incident. A superior officer called me and demanded I give one of my people an Article 15. I told him I had already "punished" him with a written reprimand (which prevents further punishment under military law). My superior officer chewed me up one side and down the other for not doing more, but the case was over, and he knew it. I thanked my superior officer for his call, and that was the end of it.
That's my opinion of how a good commander handles it when one of your good people attracts the wrong attention.
Rod-
you are taking this way too personal. I didnt say you are/were/ a pryck officer. Beleive me, if I was attacking you I'd do so in a most unsubtle way. You are the one making it sound like a unit commander has no choice but to throw the book at someone.
I knew what my 'punishment' was going to be before I walked into the CP tent. My Army had NCOs that acted as the unofficial channel for smoothing the personnel operations. It was a VERY rare AR15 that maxed out the punishment and that was for men on the way out.
From my POV, an AR15 was used when the offense didnt warrant a Courts Martial. many Ar15s were routinely done before any Courts Martial was convened.
I served in a line unit. AR15s were given for failure to get a haircut, late for morning formation, improper uniform (non reg boots), carrying an M16 into the latrine (suicides were often done that way), things like that.
Now I have met very few Officers who were happy to overlook being lied to by a subordinate. I suppose a few units would routinely overlook, false AARs. None I served in.
Would you help your enlisted subordinates falsify reports or accept a false report?
Now back to the original point I spoke to...
I dont see where Obama's administration has a gosh darn thing to do with this. So for someone to swag its how this current administration is going to shaft a grunt for capturing Bin Laden....
Just internet BS.
you are taking this way too personal. I didnt say you are/were/ a pryck officer. Beleive me, if I was attacking you I'd do so in a most unsubtle way. You are the one making it sound like a unit commander has no choice but to throw the book at someone.
I knew what my 'punishment' was going to be before I walked into the CP tent. My Army had NCOs that acted as the unofficial channel for smoothing the personnel operations. It was a VERY rare AR15 that maxed out the punishment and that was for men on the way out.
From my POV, an AR15 was used when the offense didnt warrant a Courts Martial. many Ar15s were routinely done before any Courts Martial was convened.
I served in a line unit. AR15s were given for failure to get a haircut, late for morning formation, improper uniform (non reg boots), carrying an M16 into the latrine (suicides were often done that way), things like that.
Now I have met very few Officers who were happy to overlook being lied to by a subordinate. I suppose a few units would routinely overlook, false AARs. None I served in.
Would you help your enlisted subordinates falsify reports or accept a false report?
Now back to the original point I spoke to...
I dont see where Obama's administration has a gosh darn thing to do with this. So for someone to swag its how this current administration is going to shaft a grunt for capturing Bin Laden....
Just internet BS.
Interesting read.
Now that we have had our tangent for the week,
Keep this on track......
Michael Brown
Keep this on track......
Michael Brown
