Looks like its 12 MOA but if that is the dot then its too big but there is the circle in the recticle, surely they are not referring to the circle??
Mfg site says 4.3 or 5.5 MOA
Entire kit with magnifer looks like best deal.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00DOEUBB2/ref=redir_mdp_mobile?ref_=cm_sw_r_udp_awd_8rlBsb02VKDPB
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00DOEUBB2/ref=redir_mdp_mobile?ref_=cm_sw_r_udp_awd_8rlBsb02VKDPB
The guy srlling them is clueless and did not understand the question and just copied mfg site descript without the specs. Good grief ! The circle is 12 on this model.
Here is a copy paste of a review of three similar optics from another sight. I have not used or had experience with the equipment you have mentioned, but i may try out an M21 at some point just to evaluate its performance. Considering the Mepro runs around $475, i cannot imagine that magnifier being anything but a disappointment.
Maybe a good solution is to buy the Mepro now, and test/evaluate it for yourself. Then later add a quality magnifier if you decide you need it. For the ranges you are talking about you should be able to put effective rounds on a torso sized target with this sight.
Title: Reflex Sight First Impressions: Trijicon RMR, Trijicon RX30. Meprolight M21
Post by: Tomac on November 07, 2010, 05:38:08 AM
Here's my "first impressions" comparison of the Meprolight M21, Trijicon RX30 & Trijicon RMR. All 3 use fiber optics & tritium for reticle illumination but have different sizes, weights, FOV's & reticle/dot sizes.
Trijicon RMR pros:
Light, small, more resistant to reticle washout than either the M21 or RX30.
Trijicon RMR cons:
Small FOV through the optic makes cheekweld much more critical than w/the M21 or RX30, largest dot (7moa) of the 3 makes precision shots more difficult, dot *really* blazes & blooms in bright daylight.
Trijicon RX30 pros:
Huge FOV through the 42mm objective makes for very fast shots & more forgiving cheekweld, slightly smaller dot (6.5moa, the RX34 has a 4.5mao dot) than the RMR allows for slightly greater precision.
Trijicon RX30 cons:
Like the RMR, the dot really blazes/blooms in bright daylight, 6.5moa dot isn't much of an improvement over the RMR's 7moa dot w/regards to precision shooting.
Meprolight M21 pros:
30mm objective is faster & more forgiving of sloppy cheekweld than the RMR but perhaps not quite as fast/forgiving as the RX30, bullseye reticle is very fast to pick up (especially in lighting situations where the reticle begins to dim) and 4.5moa center dot allows for greater precision than either the RX30 or RMR, factory QD mount is very fast/easy to use, W/E adjustments are definite w/good tactile/audible clicks (although a bit coarse at 1.7moa per click) & easily adjusted w/a quarter, feels more solid than the RX30 (subjective opinion only), forward optic collector significantly helps w/reticle contrast in challanging light conditions, has the brightest tritium of the 3 and (this is important to me, YMMV) the reticle does *not* blaze or bloom in direct sunlight, instead staying nice & bright at what I consider to be the near-perfect daytime brightness level.
Meprolight M21 cons:
Not as resistant to reticle washout as I'd prefer (sorry, it sux being a perfectionist).
I tested all 3 in the large darkened basement at my work, from 20' in looking out the open door into a corridor illuminated w/flourescent light, in a darkened bathroom looking out an 18"x36" East-facing window into noontime daylight, on a covered dock looking out at various targets in noontime daylight, in my dim home looking out a North-facing tramson into late-afternoon daylight and w/taclights in my completely dark garage.
The RMR is the most resistant to reticle washout (when I asked Trijicon about this they suggested it may be due to the emitter being so much closer to the lens than w/the larger/longer RX30) w/the M21 being slightly more resistant to reticle washout overall than the RX30 (due in larger part, IMHO, to the bullseye reticle & forward-facing fiber optic collectors) but the RX30 does seem to have better topside fiber optic collectors.
Personal take:
While I like the RMR's light weight & superior resistance to reticle washout I do *not* like the small FOV or the way the too-large dot blazes in bright daylight. The RMR is my least fav of the 3.
The RX30 is similar in many ways and performance-wise to the M21 but it doesn't strike me as being quite as well developed (ie: mount, ruggedness & W/E adjustments) and it suffers from the same "blazing daylight dot" as the RMR, it's a close 2nd to the M21.
I like just about everything about the M21 except for the susceptibility to reticle washout under certain lighting conditions (the bane of all Reflex-style optics). The bullseye reticle is a joy to use, being easier/faster to use than a simple dot (YMMV) but not as "busy" as the Eotech's circle/dot reticle and it doesn't blaze in bright daylight so you still have a crisp reticle. Definitely my first choice for my particular needs.
None of these optics are "Aimpoint killers" but all 3 are quality items w/differing strengths/weaknesses. If you want a KISS optic that doesn't need batteries then definitely check out the M21.".
Maybe a good solution is to buy the Mepro now, and test/evaluate it for yourself. Then later add a quality magnifier if you decide you need it. For the ranges you are talking about you should be able to put effective rounds on a torso sized target with this sight.
Title: Reflex Sight First Impressions: Trijicon RMR, Trijicon RX30. Meprolight M21
Post by: Tomac on November 07, 2010, 05:38:08 AM
Here's my "first impressions" comparison of the Meprolight M21, Trijicon RX30 & Trijicon RMR. All 3 use fiber optics & tritium for reticle illumination but have different sizes, weights, FOV's & reticle/dot sizes.
Trijicon RMR pros:
Light, small, more resistant to reticle washout than either the M21 or RX30.
Trijicon RMR cons:
Small FOV through the optic makes cheekweld much more critical than w/the M21 or RX30, largest dot (7moa) of the 3 makes precision shots more difficult, dot *really* blazes & blooms in bright daylight.
Trijicon RX30 pros:
Huge FOV through the 42mm objective makes for very fast shots & more forgiving cheekweld, slightly smaller dot (6.5moa, the RX34 has a 4.5mao dot) than the RMR allows for slightly greater precision.
Trijicon RX30 cons:
Like the RMR, the dot really blazes/blooms in bright daylight, 6.5moa dot isn't much of an improvement over the RMR's 7moa dot w/regards to precision shooting.
Meprolight M21 pros:
30mm objective is faster & more forgiving of sloppy cheekweld than the RMR but perhaps not quite as fast/forgiving as the RX30, bullseye reticle is very fast to pick up (especially in lighting situations where the reticle begins to dim) and 4.5moa center dot allows for greater precision than either the RX30 or RMR, factory QD mount is very fast/easy to use, W/E adjustments are definite w/good tactile/audible clicks (although a bit coarse at 1.7moa per click) & easily adjusted w/a quarter, feels more solid than the RX30 (subjective opinion only), forward optic collector significantly helps w/reticle contrast in challanging light conditions, has the brightest tritium of the 3 and (this is important to me, YMMV) the reticle does *not* blaze or bloom in direct sunlight, instead staying nice & bright at what I consider to be the near-perfect daytime brightness level.
Meprolight M21 cons:
Not as resistant to reticle washout as I'd prefer (sorry, it sux being a perfectionist).
I tested all 3 in the large darkened basement at my work, from 20' in looking out the open door into a corridor illuminated w/flourescent light, in a darkened bathroom looking out an 18"x36" East-facing window into noontime daylight, on a covered dock looking out at various targets in noontime daylight, in my dim home looking out a North-facing tramson into late-afternoon daylight and w/taclights in my completely dark garage.
The RMR is the most resistant to reticle washout (when I asked Trijicon about this they suggested it may be due to the emitter being so much closer to the lens than w/the larger/longer RX30) w/the M21 being slightly more resistant to reticle washout overall than the RX30 (due in larger part, IMHO, to the bullseye reticle & forward-facing fiber optic collectors) but the RX30 does seem to have better topside fiber optic collectors.
Personal take:
While I like the RMR's light weight & superior resistance to reticle washout I do *not* like the small FOV or the way the too-large dot blazes in bright daylight. The RMR is my least fav of the 3.
The RX30 is similar in many ways and performance-wise to the M21 but it doesn't strike me as being quite as well developed (ie: mount, ruggedness & W/E adjustments) and it suffers from the same "blazing daylight dot" as the RMR, it's a close 2nd to the M21.
I like just about everything about the M21 except for the susceptibility to reticle washout under certain lighting conditions (the bane of all Reflex-style optics). The bullseye reticle is a joy to use, being easier/faster to use than a simple dot (YMMV) but not as "busy" as the Eotech's circle/dot reticle and it doesn't blaze in bright daylight so you still have a crisp reticle. Definitely my first choice for my particular needs.
None of these optics are "Aimpoint killers" but all 3 are quality items w/differing strengths/weaknesses. If you want a KISS optic that doesn't need batteries then definitely check out the M21.".
Here is another review of the Mepro with my CQB optic of choice, the Aimpoint H1.
For the difference in price, and considering the shortcomings of the Mepro, i think it is a much better value. I know you mentioned an aversion to batteries, and not knowing why you have that opinion i can only make an assumption. But, if it is battery life, the H1 has a constant on battery life of about 5 years when left on the mid range setting.
http://ingunowners.com/forums/acces...-aimpoint-h1-vs-meprolight-m21-pics-vids.html
Several members of OSA use the Vortex SPARC, and have recommended them.
http://www.vortexoptics.com/product/vortex-sparc-red-dot-scope.
For the difference in price, and considering the shortcomings of the Mepro, i think it is a much better value. I know you mentioned an aversion to batteries, and not knowing why you have that opinion i can only make an assumption. But, if it is battery life, the H1 has a constant on battery life of about 5 years when left on the mid range setting.
http://ingunowners.com/forums/acces...-aimpoint-h1-vs-meprolight-m21-pics-vids.html
Several members of OSA use the Vortex SPARC, and have recommended them.
http://www.vortexoptics.com/product/vortex-sparc-red-dot-scope.
Great! Thank you so much. Geat reviews.
If I could afford one I'd get an ACOG. But, as i'm a poor bama employee I cant justify spending 2-3 weeks pay on an optic.
If you want a good red dot, I'd probably just watch the ar15.com equipment exchange and look for a used Aimpoint in your price range. They can be found... hell, I glommed an old M68 CCO for $80 at last year's Wannenmacher's show that came with a ring and everything. I wouldn't hesitate to go with a used Aimpoint if its a good price. They are built like tanks.
If you want an optic with some magnification, I would recommend the Burris TAC30 1-4x (or the MTAC that jakers mentioned... Slightly fancier version of the same thing). The TAC30 is under $300 if you look on ebay, and it has very good clarity, true 1x on the low end, and a very well illuminated reticle. It also has a bullet drop compensating reticle that, while not quite as useful as the ACOG's ranging/BDC reticle, is still pretty nice. Throw it in a Primary Arms mount, and you're good to go.
If you want an optic with some magnification, I would recommend the Burris TAC30 1-4x (or the MTAC that jakers mentioned... Slightly fancier version of the same thing). The TAC30 is under $300 if you look on ebay, and it has very good clarity, true 1x on the low end, and a very well illuminated reticle. It also has a bullet drop compensating reticle that, while not quite as useful as the ACOG's ranging/BDC reticle, is still pretty nice. Throw it in a Primary Arms mount, and you're good to go.
