This will be a rifle for work, training, and hunting. Mostly training though.
For one that primer is not flat all the way yet.
Cratering can be from the fit of the firing pin into the hole.. I have had new savage rifles with a sort of loose fit and the crater on some primers is ugly but no where near over pressure.
Like stated your primers look fine and take the accuracy over speed..BUT,, I would load 1 to 2 tenths of a step more for testing purposes if it was my rifle.
I would continue to step it up until i got a little stiff bolt lift or the groups opened up.
WHY you ask.. so you know if you are in an accuracy node and how large of a spread is this node.
And like stated work it up with hotter temps and see if the node is still there.
I would also back it off in .1-.2 gr steps to see how far down the scale the node is.
I would take the lower node if it stayed true in all temperatures.
I have a .308 load that is really good from 41.7-42.5.. change primer brand and it is 41.7-42gr for the node.
Some bullets like speed in certain rifles My .308 and 30-06 shooting the Sierra Palma 155gr did not do well until i was at the top and over the top on load data as per book specs. nearly 3200fps from the 30-06 . In the 2900fps range in the .308.
Cratering can be from the fit of the firing pin into the hole.. I have had new savage rifles with a sort of loose fit and the crater on some primers is ugly but no where near over pressure.
Like stated your primers look fine and take the accuracy over speed..BUT,, I would load 1 to 2 tenths of a step more for testing purposes if it was my rifle.
I would continue to step it up until i got a little stiff bolt lift or the groups opened up.
WHY you ask.. so you know if you are in an accuracy node and how large of a spread is this node.
And like stated work it up with hotter temps and see if the node is still there.
I would also back it off in .1-.2 gr steps to see how far down the scale the node is.
I would take the lower node if it stayed true in all temperatures.
I have a .308 load that is really good from 41.7-42.5.. change primer brand and it is 41.7-42gr for the node.
Some bullets like speed in certain rifles My .308 and 30-06 shooting the Sierra Palma 155gr did not do well until i was at the top and over the top on load data as per book specs. nearly 3200fps from the 30-06 . In the 2900fps range in the .308.
Just as swampratt said, just a flattish / small top hat primer is not necessarily a sign of over pressure. if you are pushing your shoulders back a little to much, this will also happen. i usually go off bolt or ejector marks.
I have not been as lucky to find a larger spread in accuracy nodes.. mine are usually in the area of .3gr.
I do ladder tests in .2gr increments and then find tune in .1gr. and then play with length if i am not limited by a mag or box.
I have not been as lucky to find a larger spread in accuracy nodes.. mine are usually in the area of .3gr.
I do ladder tests in .2gr increments and then find tune in .1gr. and then play with length if i am not limited by a mag or box.
I'm hoping to hit the range again in the morning. I loaded for another ladder test, but solely in h4350. RL-17 appears to be a great powder for accuracy and should be able to achieve higher velocity, but I haven't found a reliable source to testify about its temperature sensitivity. I backed out from 2.80 coal to 2.825 (variance of 2.824-2.826) I'm still going to closely watch my primers, but I won't be as critical about them this time. For this time around I'll be shooting 3 round groups at .3 increments. If I get a winner, I'll load again and test at 300 Sunday or Monday. If I don't get a winner, I'll continue working on it.
Top left: 40.3 h4350 @ 2.825"
Top right: 40.6 h4350 @ 2.825" pulled
Bottom left: 40.9 h4350 @ 2.825"
Bottom right: 41.2 h4450 @ 2.825"
Top left: 41.5 h4350 2.825" pulled
Top right: 41.5 h4350 @2.80"
Bottom left: 42.1 RL-17 @ 2.80"
I'm still not touching the lands at 2.825 and will all of the loads, I'm still not seeing pressure signs. I did pull one right on a couple targets, but still wouldn't have made the one-hole-group I'm looking for. It's odd, my best group is with an coal of 2.80, not 2.825. Could be a number of things... I'll continue up with my load and see where my Max pressure is and check accuracy along the way. The RL-17 shoots great here, I'm just worried about temperature stability. Can anyone weigh-in here?
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Heat up a potato or 4 in a microwave.. these hold heat a long time.
Wrap in a hot towel and head to the range.
Place some ammo onto these hot potatoes to heat up the ammo..Temp guns are your friend here or a fluke meter with temp probe...or something to measure the ammo temp.
Shoot those at 100F and you can also have some other box with ice in it to test cold ammo.
Many of those groups look very nice.. But you need to shoot them farther than 100 yards to really tell which one is good.
When you have many loads that shoot as good as your gun is shooting you are wasting ammo and time shooting less than 200 yards to find which load is best.
You do not need the hot potato.. you can keep ammo on top of the car engine and some in an ice chest for testing.
Now do not take this heating out of context.. don't blow yourselfs up.
It does not take much heat to get 100F
Wrap in a hot towel and head to the range.
Place some ammo onto these hot potatoes to heat up the ammo..Temp guns are your friend here or a fluke meter with temp probe...or something to measure the ammo temp.
Shoot those at 100F and you can also have some other box with ice in it to test cold ammo.
Many of those groups look very nice.. But you need to shoot them farther than 100 yards to really tell which one is good.
When you have many loads that shoot as good as your gun is shooting you are wasting ammo and time shooting less than 200 yards to find which load is best.
You do not need the hot potato.. you can keep ammo on top of the car engine and some in an ice chest for testing.
Now do not take this heating out of context.. don't blow yourselfs up.
It does not take much heat to get 100F
That sounds like pretty fair advice. Do you think it would be important to get the barrel warm as well as the ammo?
I do think I'm going to move the next lot of reloads to the 200. I'm hopeful that I'll be able to settle in on a charge weight and move on to seating depth trials.
I've read that 130gr pills are best for the 6.5 CM as it's the perfect balance between case volume, projectile weight, and speed. With being in the 143 gr ELD-X there is no doubt that I have reduced my case volume, but I also have a much higher BC and a little extra weight. Do you think that the 150~fps would be worth dropping to the 130gr class projectiles?
You can test the ammo in a cold barrel and a warm one to find that answer out,, not too hard to get it warm. shoot 4 rounds through it and it would be warm.
My 308 has a sweet spot when shooting groups at paper.. 90-110 f is the spot.
When trying to figure out if a higher BC heavier bullet is what you need you will need to decide at what range you will be shooting these.
Go to a trajectory calculator on line and punch in the numbers.. look at the bullet drop and wind drift.. I would take the one with less drift and less drop at the range i intend on shooting the bullet.
My 155gr with much less BC than the 168 gr does much better to the distances i shoot.
Then You have to really just go and shoot the pills to see which one stays tightest at the extreme ranges in your gun.
I had a few loads with the 178A-Max in my 308 that cloverleafed at 100 yards.. but at 200 yards it fell apart.. could not explain it at all..// 12" groups.
Now my 100 yard groups for the good 155 or 168 bullets are around .75" at 100 but .75" at 200 is what they print also.. go figure.
Buy what you think you need and make some loads and go shoot em.
They say varget is not temp sensitive.. well in some cases this may be true.. and more true with closer to 100% load density.
Certain load densities will prove that what is claimed to be temp insensitive will actually really be very temp sensitive.
My freezing temps with varget always shoot tighter groups than 70 degree temps.. gets very frustrating.
My 308 has a sweet spot when shooting groups at paper.. 90-110 f is the spot.
When trying to figure out if a higher BC heavier bullet is what you need you will need to decide at what range you will be shooting these.
Go to a trajectory calculator on line and punch in the numbers.. look at the bullet drop and wind drift.. I would take the one with less drift and less drop at the range i intend on shooting the bullet.
My 155gr with much less BC than the 168 gr does much better to the distances i shoot.
Then You have to really just go and shoot the pills to see which one stays tightest at the extreme ranges in your gun.
I had a few loads with the 178A-Max in my 308 that cloverleafed at 100 yards.. but at 200 yards it fell apart.. could not explain it at all..// 12" groups.
Now my 100 yard groups for the good 155 or 168 bullets are around .75" at 100 but .75" at 200 is what they print also.. go figure.
Buy what you think you need and make some loads and go shoot em.
They say varget is not temp sensitive.. well in some cases this may be true.. and more true with closer to 100% load density.
Certain load densities will prove that what is claimed to be temp insensitive will actually really be very temp sensitive.
My freezing temps with varget always shoot tighter groups than 70 degree temps.. gets very frustrating.
Primer cratering isn't a super reliable "pressure sign". It is highly dependent on primer hardness and the diameter of firing pin / firing pin hole. If you see what you think is flattening or cratering, by all means DON'T IGNORE IT. However, it must analyzed considering all the factors. In my pet load for .223, it forms just the slightest ridge that I can catch with my nail. However, bolt lift is fine, brass life hasn't suffered, and I haven't seen anything otherwise that would make me nervous. There have even been cases of people puncturing primers at modest loads in certain chamberings. The fix is usually a smaller firing pin and a bushed bolt.
