Re: Starbucks or "Slapping an Ally in the Face"

[english kanigit]

EK, facts speak otherwise! Criminals are predators. Predators prey on the weak.
"

I am inclined to agree that is often times the case. I actually use the same comparison myself at times.

Let us think about this though. Now I'm on a mobile iThing and don't have a lot of my data handy so I'm going off memory and recollection of a few presentations here. If you think something I'm saying is wrong or out of place by all means speak up and bring solid info. Lets consider an average hoodrat/VCA (violent criminal actor)/ ne'er do well. They are probably in their mid-to-late 20s, Physically fit from growing up in "gladiator school" Fighting for position within their own pecking order and with other groups. It's not his first rodeo, getting into a fight or physical confrontation is a matter of some twisted honor-code and as such it probably happens pretty regularly. He's probably got an arrest record which would mean he has been taken into custody by men who are armed and work together in groups more than a couple if times. Additionally, he's probably had a gun pointed at him by his peers more than a few times over his "career".

Now, considering the above, do you really think this person by himself is going to be afraid of you because you have a heater on your hip? What about adding a few of his peers to the situation which will then risk his pride and embarrassment all of which equals even greater motivation to win? Are you comfortable with violence? I can all but guarantee that this person would be.

Initiative is a very real and tangible thing and I myself have been on the receiving end of that more times than I care to count in training. That is a very dark place to be. Predators do prey on the weak. Defining what that entails can be a very uncomfortable conversation.

Ek

 

[caojyn]

*cough*
http://www.examiner.com/article/open-carry-deters-armed-robbery-kennesaw

Matt Brannan and J.P. Mitchell were dining in the Wafflehouse on Barrett Parkway at I-575 in Kennesaw at 4:45 in the morning recently when a scout for an armed robbery crew entered the restaurant to case it. At the time, Matt and J.P. thought he looked a little suspicious, as he was wandering around the small restaurant like he was looking for someone. Unknown to Matt and J.P., two cars full of armed robbers were parked behind the restaurant waiting for the scout's report.

The scout saw that two of the customers were wearing holstered 1911 Springfield Mil-Spec .45 pistols, and he immediately turned and left the store.

apparently, this group of actual criminals aren't as brave as your fantasy criminals

 

[english kanigit]

Good for them! I'm glad they were cased by opportunists and not predators.

That's a sample of one that I've already freely admitted does happen.

Ek

 

[caojyn]

Good for them! I'm glad they were cased by opportunists and not predators.

That's a sample of one that I've already freely admitted does happen.

Ek

can you provide an example of when it failed?

 

[english kanigit]

Plenty. Look at any time a cop has been assaulted and it wasn't directly related to the performance of their duties, ie- going hands on or interacting with people.

Ek

 

[caojyn]

Plenty. Look at any time a cop has been assaulted and it wasn't directly related to the performance of their duties, ie- going hands on or interacting with people.

Ek

so to your point, these officers are more likely to be targeted by predators BC they open carry?

 

[toehanus]

Just so we can compare apples to apples. How many documented times has a person who is oc'ing been targeted because they were carrying a gun? Don't include uniformed law enforcement or security. If they were assaulted it could simply be because of their position rather than their weapon.

@toehanus

 

[uncle money bags]

*cough*
http://www.examiner.com/article/open-carry-deters-armed-robbery-kennesaw


apparently, this group of actual criminals aren't as brave as your fantasy criminals

so to your point, these officers are more likely to be targeted by predators BC they open carry?

Jeez, we can all appreciate and usually tolerate the socratic gadfly in the conversation, a la Ignent style, but have some sense about it.

Why would anyone think that having a weapon in plain view would not make you a rated target by the bad guys? No body, unless they just didnt know any better. And for those people, well enjoy the life of bliss that comes from that view while you are still able.
It is also true that to the violently inhibited opportunists among us, the sight of a free man carrying a gun may be a deterrent.

 

[Coded-Dude]

Crime per 100,000 people(FBI 2011)

Homicide: 4.7
Robbery: 113.7
Aggravated assault: 241.1


So we should hide our guns from criminals(and the sheep) because there is a .0047% chance that the criminal you are faced with MIGHT murder you instead of moving on to an easier target............? The percentage is probably even way smaller than that if you can conclude that most of those murders were not committed during the commission of a robbery. Robbers use threat of violence instead of violence itself. They just want an easy payday, and robbery or armed robbery are acceptable punishments, but most "robbers" would not want to take a murder rap along with those other charges. Granted some don't care, but again that is a very, VERY small percentage.

 

[caojyn]

Jeez, we can all appreciate and usually tolerate the socratic gadfly.