Remember when socialism was a dirty word?

[dennishoddy]

We already have many socialist programs social security, medicare, etc.).

How is SS or medicare a socialist program? I paid into both for all of my working life. SS 100% not socialists. Its determined by how many years of credits you have and how much you put in.
Don't participate in the SS program you don't get squat. I'm just getting my money back that the government forced me to pay, and they have stolen from it many times. One wonders how it has the potential to become insolvent, look right back at the congress that has stolen from it. The original concept was the worker puts in a buck, and the Government puts in a buck. The government has never contributed a dime to SS.

Medicare payments taken from our paychecks may not pay for the total care required in peoples golden years, but we can't put seniors into the ditch and allow the dogs and vermin to use them for fodder.
Medicare is a little different issue,

 

[YukonGlocker]

How is SS or medicare a socialist program? I paid into both for all of my working life. SS 100% not socialists. Its determined by how many years of credits you have and how much you put in.
Don't participate in the SS program you don't get squat. I'm just getting my money back that the government forced me to pay, and they have stolen from it many times. One wonders how it has the potential to become insolvent, look right back at the congress that has stolen from it. The original concept was the worker puts in a buck, and the Government puts in a buck. The government has never contributed a dime to SS.

Medicare payments taken from our paychecks may not pay for the total care required in peoples golden years, but we can't put seniors into the ditch and allow the dogs and vermin to use them for fodder.
Medicare is a little different issue,

A substantial portion of Social Security goes to people that paid nothing in (e.g., disability payments to disabled people and their children), and many people end up receiving much more than they paid in. Of course many people get back about what they put in...which is "socialism".

Medicare may be a different program, but it's still socialism.

 

[YukonGlocker]

One big issue is that conservatives in general, and especially the majority of forum users here, use the terms "socialism", "communism", and sometimes "progressivism" as if they are all the same thing...when in fact the policies, procedures, and ideology we're typically discussing are typically "democratic socialism", which isn't the same thing...in most cases, far from it.

 

[dennishoddy]

A substantial portion of Social Security goes to people that paid nothing in (e.g., disability payments to disabled people and their children), and many people end up receiving much more than they paid in. Of course many people get back about what they put in...which is "socialism".

Medicare may be a different program, but it's still socialism.

I disagree with your observation of SS. Yes, a portion goes to people that paid nothing into it, but its not government money. Its money from the working folk that was put in with the promise that they will get it back at a certain age, and use it to survive the years when they cannot work. The frauds should be prosecuted. If the government put in their share, then it would be socialism.

This is where the millennials description and the definition of socialism from my day becomes clouded....kinda.

 

[YukonGlocker]

I disagree with your observation of SS. Yes, a portion goes to people that paid nothing into it, but its not government money. Its money from the working folk that was put in with the promise that they will get it back at a certain age, and use it to survive the years when they cannot work. The frauds should be prosecuted. If the government put in their share, then it would be socialism.

This is where the millennials description and the definition of socialism from my day becomes clouded....kinda.

We send SS funds to gov, gov invests or uses it as it sees fit, and when/if we retire or become disabled the gov gives us what they think we "need". The multiple attempts to "privatize" SS were indeed attempts to make it less socialistic in nature. It's been a successful socialist program, especially when it comes to keeping poor old people from living in cardboard boxes. There are many that would like to shut down SS completely, although those same people have not offered any plans for taking care of the homeless that would create.

 

[Dale00]

So you're suggesting anarchy is the way to go?

Are you and Maxine Waters of one mind about nationalizing oil companies and growing government?

 

[dennishoddy]

We send SS funds to gov, gov invests or uses it as it sees fit, and when/if we retire or become disabled the gov gives us what they think we "need". .

You get what you get credits for, there is no determination unless its for disability. US government employees are not eligible for SS, they have their own program. So, unless they take part time jobs, they get nothing.

Most take on a part time job to get into the SS system. Military pays into the SS system.

 

[donMiguel]

How is SS or medicare a socialist program? I paid into both for all of my working life. SS 100% not socialists. Its determined by how many years of credits you have and how much you put in.
Don't participate in the SS program you don't get squat. I'm just getting my money back that the government forced me to pay, and they have stolen from it many times. One wonders how it has the potential to become insolvent, look right back at the congress that has stolen from it. The original concept was the worker puts in a buck, and the Government puts in a buck. The government has never contributed a dime to SS.

If the government contributed a dime, you know where they got it. So I am not too concerned if they didn't kick into the kitty.

I question the assertion you are getting back only what you put in. If you apply interest at T-bill rates, which is what you earn on a government backed "risk free" investment, there is a good chance you will receive more than you contributed, if you can make it past 78 years of age or so. Most estimations show that even with market returns, you will receive more than you kicked in, if you can make it to around 78 years.

Some not-quite-neutral reading: Beat SS Returns

So can a Ponzie scheme be considered a socialist enterprise?

 

[mightymouse]

People do love their labels. How many of our parents, grandparents, or great grandparents (assuming our roots in Oklahoma go back at least 2 or 3 generations) voted Socialist in the early years of statehood? In 1911, Oscar Ameringer, Socialist Party candidate for mayor of Oklahoma City, garnered 23% of the vote. In 1914, fully 20% of the voters in Oklahoma voted the Socialist Party ticket. Socialism may be a dirty word--if you do not understand your history.

 

[YukonGlocker]

You get what you get credits for, there is no determination unless its for disability. US government employees are not eligible for SS, they have their own program. So, unless they take part time jobs, they get nothing.

Most take on a part time job to get into the SS system. Military pays into the SS system.

There's other situations that pay out, other than disability...for example, homemakers (women and men), divorcees, widows/widowers...all who don't have to pay in one penny. Indeed, much of what we pay into, and the gov pitches in to help, sends SS funds to those that didn't contribute any...or, they get paid way more than what they paid in. If you only get what you paid in, all you're given is a big "thanks!" for helping everyone else, who is paid off the interest accumulated off your funds. SS is not a retirement account whereby you get what you paid in...it does much more than that, all under the control of the gov. If someone doesn't think this is a socialist program, it doesn't really matter tho'...there are plenty of other examples to demonstrate we use plenty of them.