Scenes from a militarized America: Iowa family ‘terrorized’

[rawhide]

What we know for a fact is that "knock" warrants can be served several different ways. It seems to me that a search warrant for evidence in a small financial crime, that couldn't exactly be flushed down the toilet is the type of warrant where a couple of uniforms and the detectives knock on the door, wait for someone to open it, then announcing they have a warrant to search the premises. Knocking, ramming the door in under 5 seconds and swarming the interior with SWAT guys with rifles and masks is undoubtedly over the top.

If your search turns up empty, you didn't destroy private property, didn't look like bullies and your overreaction doesn't make the 6 O'clock news.

For you guys in law enforcement, why do some agencies use these tactics? What has led to the creation of such aggressive tactics, policies, or the lack of policies?

My $.02 is I have no problem whatsoever with law enforcement being "militarized". I can see reasons for them to have armored vehicles and specialized weapons that can be used to protect and serve the people in their community. BUT, why the over the top implementation of force? With more power (militarization) comes more responsibility to use what they have appropriately. Whatever happened to more subtle methods like Glocktogo suggests? Is leadership in the the law enforcement community out of touch with the fact they are citizens and members of the community they serve? Why risk escalating a situation that should and most likely will be nonviolent?

 

[tiasman]

I'm glad you guys all know the background of the criminals in the house. Like maybe how they have violent history of weapons possession AFCF, shooting with intent to kill, etc. Credit card fraud might just one of their many criminal endeavors. Oh that's right, you don't have their III criminal history packet. In fact you have no knowledge of who they are or what they are capable of.

Police don't have tanks. Some departments have armored vehicles which come in pretty handy when you have to make an approach on an armed and barricaded subject. When you have a guy in a house with a rifle you would want some cover too. Same thing with tear gas. If we can use that to force a subject out of a house without having to go in after him, it's safer for the police and the subject. Same thing with flashbangs. If we have to go in, the bad guy has the advantage. He knows the layout of the building and has the advantage of ambush. We are going to try to even the odds just a little bit so maybe we don't get shot in the head.

We put our lives at risk everyday. This isn't TV. This is real life where we deal with people who want to kill us. We're at a disadvantage because we have to respond to their actions. I'm not complaining. I signed up for it. But unless you have been there, have been shot at, have people with dirty needles conceal them and put them sharps up in their pockets hoping to stick you, called you for help with intentions of ambushing you, reached into their pocket or purse and pulled a gun etc....maybe you don't really know what you're talking about?

I'm putting my life on the line. Why don't you let me and the people with the training and experience plan how to carry out the jobs we have to do in the safest manner possible....or I guess you can continue to Monday Morning quarterback it from the safety of your computer.

When I was an officer I avoided officers with this attitude. There are many professions far more dangerous than coppin'....... Get over it dude, its not rocket science, its not dangerous 99.99% of the time and tactics have gotten way out of control. I'm sad to see the over zealous militerized practices being deployed across our great country.

 

[cjjtulsa]

My $.02 is I have no problem whatsoever with law enforcement being "militarized".

(In my best R. Lee Ermey voice) Jesus H. Christ.....

 

[milsurp2.0]

Tuff ****. He ran from the police and got shot. I'm personally tired of people breaking the law and then bitching about what happens. Last time I had lights behind me, I pulled over, got a warning. Guess what, I did not get shot!! I don't deal drugs and have warrants out, so the cops are not beating down my door, again still not shot. Who gives a ****, dude broke the law and paid the price in the worst way. Guess the stupid ass should have pulled over in the first place. Ok rant over, in gonna go rob a store and run form the police and the ***** about my rights being violated when they F my ass up for resisting arrest.

So if youre kid has a moment of stupidity gun his ass down right?

 

[uncle money bags]

So if youre kid has a moment of stupidity gun his ass down right?

This argument is getting seriously worn out. Why would his opinion change if the person shot was his own son or daughter? Are we to assume that every one who has a different opinion than us is necessarily too self absorbed that they didnt think about "my God, what if it was my kid"?

 

[robinray649]

This is another example of why this kind of behavior has to be stopped. Short exert from article is:

'Cops sexually assault mother, break 10-year-old son's leg, claims lawsuit

A Brooklyn cop kicked a 10-year-old boy in the shin, breaking his leg, as the child was recording him with his cell phone, according to court papers.'

For those interested the whole article is at:http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/cops-break-kid-leg-sexually-abuse-mom-article-1.1602489

I mean really this has got to stop. How can leos not stand up to trash like this and turn them in to be prosecuted. This kind of behavior is starting to be very sad and very scary.

 

[ConstitutionCowboy]

I haven't read the whole thread, so if this has been asked and or answered, these questions needs to be repeated: Did the police stake out the residence in any attempt to verify the people they were seeking were actually in the house? Did they act on a tip? How often do they need to suit up and practice their SWAT tactics to 'stay current'?

Woody

 

[yukonjack]

I wanna know if the cops used any old fashioned police work and actually did any interviews with the suspects or house mates before they busted down the door. It's amazing what you learn from actually knocking and talking. Geez, I used to work the warrant desk and when the weather was too bad to get out we'd call these guys on the phone. I'd tell them we had an arrest warrant for them and it'd be easier if they just came down and turned themselves in. Done right and I had a 60% success rate. I'd even call them in the outlying villages here in Alaska and tell them just to head over to the airport and I'd have a ticket waiting for them. Almost always worked. Who wants to have their door kicked in, their house tossed and be emberassed in front of their mom and kids and the neighbors? Seems like that the art of human relations is lost to this new generation of coppers....

 

[Pokinfun]

You should read Thomas Hobbes' Leviathan. Hobbes basically says that people are scared and selfish, who need a strong government to control them. It is funny that a guy wrote a book in 1640-1650, which explains how scared people are willing to allow a government to take their rights, provided it serves their own needs. It is basically the reason the reason Madison believes a federal system is the only way our country would survive, because states would always work in their own self-interest. It is also why originally the senate was appointed and not elected by the people, because the people, average citizen, do not understand liberty. It is also part of the reason we have the Electoral College to elect the president.
By the way, Thomas Hoppes is one of the great philosophers during the Enlightenment, which our founding fathers would have read.

This argument is getting seriously worn out. Why would his opinion change if the person shot was his own son or daughter? Are we to assume that every one who has a different opinion than us is necessarily too self absorbed that they didnt think about "my God, what if it was my kid"?

 

[Super Dave]

Haven't read all of this thread. Just a few pages.

What a terrifying video.

Is it common practice by law enforcement, prior to entering a house when serving a warrant, or after entering, to cover video cameras, or remove them? Isn't that a violation of rights? Can't see any good legal reason to do that. Seems like that might have been probably done to hide violating MORE rights? IF they were carrying out their task by the book, what possible reason would there be to remove or cover cameras?

Mistakes are going to happen like this, but I don't believe they realized they were at the wrong address when they messed with the cameras. I imagine there is going to be some serious investigating by an outside agency. I would certainly want one if it was my home. Glad no one was killed.

Now, all that said, I see they were harboring two other fugitives, one who had a fair amount of drugs on him. Hmmm. Maybe THAT'S what the cameras were there for. Not that that makes it okay.