"Shotguns for Home Protection"

[OK Corgi Rancher]

Does anyone ever stop to think... If rifles chambered in .223/5.56 are so prone to overpenetration thru buildings and people and such, why does pretty much every city cop in the country have such a dangerous gun in their patrol car for use in urban environments?

The department I worked for in a Denver suburb started using ARs in lieu of shotguns in the early 80s. Our issue ammo for the AR was Federal American Eagle 55gr FMJ.

I'm not arguing the effectiveness of a 12ga will full power defensive loads. I just think there are better alternatives out there. Those alternatives might not be as devastating as a 12ga loaded with 00B but they have many other features that make them a good option for the majority of people that might want to use them.

 

[Gideon]

I think most of the options listed here are ballistically acceptable means of stopping human threats. That's not really the question.
The question is: Do you, person with limited time and money, put in the effort required to be sufficiently proficient with your home defense firearm?

A shotgun will knock chucks of meat off a bad guy, yes, but a pumpgun is an expert's weapon and anyone that says otherwise hasn't trained with one enough.
My dainty, barely practiced wife isn't gonna combat load my 870 one at a time when she emptys the tube at the first 2 bad guys in the door. Put a D60 in the AR, however, and she'll be hunkered in the Alamo (our bedroom) for as long as it takes backup to arrive.

 

[streak]

I think most of the options listed here are ballistically acceptable means of stopping human threats. That's not really the question.
The question is: Do you, person with limited time and money, put in the effort required to be sufficiently proficient with your home defense firearm?

A shotgun will knock chucks of meat off a bad guy, yes, but a pumpgun is an expert's weapon and anyone that says otherwise hasn't trained with one enough.
My dainty, barely practiced wife isn't gonna combat load my 870 one at a time when she emptys the tube at the first 2 bad guys in the door. Put a D60 in the AR, however, and she'll be hunkered in the Alamo (our bedroom) for as long as it takes backup to arrive.

After your first two buddies lose parts trying to go through the bedroom door who TF is this 3rd person that’s gonna think to themself “that’s the room I need to be in”

 

[CHenry]

I think most of the options listed here are ballistically acceptable means of stopping human threats. That's not really the question.
The question is: Do you, person with limited time and money, put in the effort required to be sufficiently proficient with your home defense firearm?

A shotgun will knock chucks of meat off a bad guy, yes, but a pumpgun is an expert's weapon and anyone that says otherwise hasn't trained with one enough.
My dainty, barely practiced wife isn't gonna combat load my 870 one at a time when she emptys the tube at the first 2 bad guys in the door. Put a D60 in the AR, however, and she'll be hunkered in the Alamo (our bedroom) for as long as it takes backup to arrive.

True that, when I was 17, many years ago, I was shooting skeet with a model 12 winchester 16 ga pump. We uped it to doubles on the thrower and I was usually 18-19 of 20.
I think I can operate a pump fast enough but not all can. I would sometimes hold the trigger down for a 2nd shot and pump the action.

 

[CHenry]

After your first two buddies lose parts trying to go through the bedroom door who TF is this 3rd person that’s gonna think to themself “that’s the room I need to be in”

He's halfway down the road after the first one gets shot.

 

[RickN]

Does anyone ever stop to think... If rifles chambered in .223/5.56 are so prone to overpenetration thru buildings and people and such, why does pretty much every city cop in the country have such a dangerous gun in their patrol car for use in urban environments?

The department I worked for in a Denver suburb started using ARs in lieu of shotguns in the early 80s. Our issue ammo for the AR was Federal American Eagle 55gr FMJ.

I'm not arguing the effectiveness of a 12ga will full power defensive loads. I just think there are better alternatives out there. Those alternatives might not be as devastating as a 12ga loaded with 00B but they have many other features that make them a good option for the majority of people that might want to use them.

Difference is the local DA will not try to file charges if a cop misses and the bullet passes thru a wall killing a child. They will call it an accident and settle with the family. Plus the cops have at least some training. The vast majority of people trying to protect their home are lucky to know which end the bullet comes out. We at least try to learn and tell others to get some training but most do not and may never even fire the $2000 AR they bought.

 

[Gideon]

After your first two buddies lose parts trying to go through the bedroom door who TF is this 3rd person that’s gonna think to themself “that’s the room I need to be in”

Maybe we forget that poor example and focus on the fact that pump guns have the most complicated manual of arms of any modern fighting gun.

I suppose that not everyone has it in their heart to press an attack and avenge their recently fallen.

 

[streak]

Maybe we forget that poor example and focus on the fact that pump guns have the most complicated manual of arms of any modern fighting gun.

While I agree they are more complicated, I would say their familiarity in society means that most would have the ability to use them with little to no training.

 

[CHenry]

Maybe we forget that poor example and focus on the fact that pump guns have the most complicated manual of arms of any modern fighting gun.

Are you for real right now? I have never had an issue pumping just as fast as a semi auto. It was like second nature. When that gun went off I had it pumped before I readjusted from the recoil.
But I shot alot of Quail and Pheasant beginning early in life.

 

[Gideon]

Are you for real right now? I have never had an issue pumping just as fast as a semi auto. It was like second nature. When that gun went off I had it pumped before I readjusted from the recoil.
But I shot alot of Quail and Pheasant beginning early in life.

You think that pumping is the only thing you do in a shotgun fight?

You think that an inexperienced shooter (unlike yourself who has lots of reps with them) will understand the patterning of different loads at different ranges, short stocking, combat loading, ghost loading, cruiser safe vs. cruiser ready storage? Will they ride the pump through recoil properly like you do or will they short stroke the pump and have an empty chamber? Will grandma smoothly operate the pump like you or I or will she jam the pump by racking it at some funny angle because her short arms have trouble reaching?