South Dakota to let schools arm teachers

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Is this a Good idea ?

  • Yes - I Think It Is Great

    Votes: 18 32.7%
  • No - Only Professional Security Should Be Used

    Votes: 1 1.8%
  • Meh - Just Leave them alone

    Votes: 1 1.8%
  • Yes - Great Idea - We Need It Here Too

    Votes: 41 74.5%
  • NO - Let The Government Handle It

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • No - There Should Be No Weapons In Schools

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    55
  • Poll closed .
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I’ll weigh in cautiously on the agree side. I’m basing my response on the premise that with rights come responsibilities. This is evident in the language of the 2nd Amendment preface of a “well regulated militia”. To me that means that we should all be both skilled and safe in exercising this right. Nowhere should this right be more well regulated than working with other people’s children while armed. Consider this: When CCW incidents like Kenneth Gumm, James Ersland and George Zimmerman happen, even pro-gun people groan and wish they’d been better trained or prepared for the situation. Now imagine a negative event where a school employee’s gun is involved. It would only take one bad scenario to ruin it for everyone.

Based on this information, I think armed school employees should be required to have rigorous training on use of force before carrying. They need classroom training on use of force law, case studies and legal aftermath. They need advanced training on proper carry and safe storage. They need simulated and live fire in dynamic, scenario based skills drills, to go along with minimum qualification standards. Training should cover improvised tactical positions, teamwork and sector management. They also need training on OPSEC and PERSEC. They need training on recognizing combative behaviors, diffusing and mitigating explosive encounters, and managing unknown contacts. Why? Because effective security is far more than the presence of a gun. It’s a comprehensive, layered system of defensive posture. The more layered and proactive it is, the more effective it is. It also reduces the likelihood of negative outcomes.

For instance, school children are curious and a gun is an “attractive nuisance”. Further, why bring a gun to school if you can just get the teacher’s gun? The threat vector may be an adult or one of the kids in the school. For these reasons, it’s critical that a gun toter’s cover be maintained. No one outside the administration and law enforcement should know who is armed. Further, this is a safety measure for the gun toter. They can’t be specifically targeted if the threat doesn’t know who they are. Additionally, it’s a sound security practice to never divulge just how many plain clothes security agents you have at any given time. Let the threat’s imagination take over there. Is it two? Ten? Twenty? When they have no idea, it’s a psychological force multiplier.

Additional security measures, such as randomized uniformed security patrols, hardened exterior facades, reinforced classroom doors with locking mechanisms, 3M security film on glass to resist breach attempts and manage glass fragmentation from gunfire, explosives and tornados, etc. Each school should undergo an all hazards risk assessment to identify and mitigate specific vulnerabilities. If a layered comprehensive approach is utilized, effective security with minimal risk is possible. Anything less is just window dressing.
 

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I’m basing my response on the premise that with rights come responsibilities. This is evident in the language of the 2nd Amendment preface of a “well regulated militia”. To me that means that we should all be both skilled and safe in exercising this right. Nowhere should this right be more well regulated than working with other people’s children while armed.

Yikes, yikes, and double yikes! You disappoint me, GTG. I normally find your posts well reasoned.

You need to re-read the Second Amendment and check your grammar. It is not the RIGHT that is well regulated; it is the MILITIA! There is no qualification whatsover placed on the right itself, which shall not be infringed. The well regulated militia language explains why the right shall not be infringed. It does not modify the right.

As to fortifying schools with armor and roving armed guards: yikes again! If you believe your school is that dangerous, why the eff would you send your children into a war zone? I would never send my children to a place remotely resembling what you advocate.
 
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Yikes, yikes, and double yikes! You disappoint me, GTG. I normally find your posts well reasoned.

You need to re-read the Second Amendment and check your grammar. It is not the RIGHT that is well regulated; it is the MILITIA! There is no qualification whatsover placed on the right itself, which shall not be infringed. The well regulated militia language explains why the right shall not be infringed. It does not modify the right.

As to fortifying schools with armor and roving armed guards: yikes again! If you believe your school is that dangerous, why the eff would you send your children into a war zone? I would never send my children to a place remotely resembling what you advocate.

I'm not going to jump all over you, but I think you're overreacting to what I'm talking about here. In this case you're talking about forming an organized group of citizens to protect a specific segment of the community under the umbrella of a government organization (school district). Absent law enforcement agency and officer credentialing or full time employment as an armed security guard, you're essentially talking about a militia of sorts.

What should a militia be? Well organized. As for the rest, metal doors, door locks and window film somewhat like thick car window tint is armor? A random security patrol by a licensed security guard makes it a war zone?

That's a bit of hyperbole. You can have a secure, well protected facility without making it look like a war zone. All the better to prevent it from becoming one. :(
 

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As for the rest, metal doors, door locks and window film somewhat like thick car window tint is armor? A random security patrol by a licensed security guard makes it a war zone?

That's a bit of hyperbole. You can have a secure, well protected facility without making it look like a war zone. All the better to prevent it from becoming one. :(
Well, let me address the same point from a different angle. If any place is inherently dangerous enough that such measures come to mind, my children will not go there. If I go any place dangerous enough that such measures are in effect, I have a compelling right to arm myself. If for some reason my children are in such a dangerous place, I danged sure will be armed for their protection when I am with them!

The practical and moral argument invalidates your thesis even outside the unambiguous Constitutional considerations.
 
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Well, let me address the same point from a different angle. If any place is inherently dangerous enough that such measures come to mind, my children will not go there. If I go any place dangerous enough that such measures are in effect, I have a compelling right to arm myself. If for some reason my children are in such a dangerous place, I danged sure will be armed for their protection when I am with them!

The practical and moral argument invalidates your thesis even outside the unambiguous Constitutional considerations.

Umm...what?

I really don't understand how anyone can call for arming people in schools, but oppose having improved physical security measures??? You make it sound like I want to up-armor school buses against mines and have military troops in full combat gear at every door. Where did you get this nonsense?

When you walk into a store that has an armed guard, do you feel more or less secure than when you walk into a store with no guard? When you see an unarmed guard at a kiosk, do you consider them an effective countermeasure, or an easy target? When you shop for a home, would you prefer it have flimsy hollow core doors with a single knob lock on the entrances, or a solid core (or better yet, steel) door with a quality deadbolt?

If you like the idea of any of these things, why in the world would you consider them to be excessive for a school? I just don't get it? Here I am agreeing that we should extend gun rights into "gun free zones". All I want is to ensure that we do it right the first time, so we don't wind up on the national news as the poster child for why guns in schools are a bad idea. :rolleyes2
 

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I just don't get it? Here I am agreeing that we should extend gun rights into "gun free zones". All I want is to ensure that we do it right the first time, so we don't wind up on the national news as the poster child for why guns in schools are a bad idea. :rolleyes2
Okay, let's take a step back and see whether we actually have a substantive disagreement vice a mere disagreement on details:

Do you have any objection to Constitutional carry? That is, that free citizens have the right to arm themselves and our government has no authority to prevent free citizens from arming themselves?
 
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Okay, let's take a step back and see whether we actually have a substantive disagreement vice a mere disagreement on details:

Do you have any objection to Constitutional carry? That is, that free citizens have the right to arm themselves and our government has no authority to prevent free citizens from arming themselves?

I LOVE constitutional carry! Here's a perfect reason why: http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2013/03/robert-farago/missouri-lt-gov-fights-dhs-gun-registration/

This is another reason I support Oklahoma's opposition to the Real ID requirement.
 

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