SWAT guns down US Marine in home

[sumoj275]

The cops shooting him doesn't mean anything. What do you expect them to do? They just busted down the door to a sleeping man's home and see him with a gun. If I were in that position, I'd think "man, this guy is about to shoot me."

The real question is who sent them there, why, and was it worth it? The answers are the government (with our support), 1000 poor excuses, and no.

Doesn't have anything thing to d with the cops shooting a guy. If you're waging a "war" (what we called it until Obama said not to because it's "counterproductive to call it that"), people are going to get shot. You legally hire, train and send armed men to break into an armed man's house while he is sleeping, what the hell do you think is going to happen?

Why they shot him doesn't matter. Many of us might have shot him too. If I bust into your house tonight and see you with a gun...wouldn't I be correct in thinking you're about to shoot me? That's probably what the SWAT guys were thinking. Why were they there? Who sent them? Was it worth it?

Sure you can throw out "they don't have to do it" stuff. Yeah, you're right. But as long as we tell them it's the right thing to do, and pay them to do it...it's gonna get done. If the government had paid positions to go around sucker punching old women in public...people would fill the jobs. Sure, they shouldn't be punching old women...but shouldn't the government and we as a society not be irresponsible enough to want them to do it? Blaming the cops for things like this is starting at the wrong end of the chain. How many corrupt cops were in Miami circa the 1980's? Who was REALLY to blame for that? Correlation does not imply causation, but prohibition does. AMIRITE?

Yes, you have this correct. Like you said, not right but that is the way it is. I was listening to NPR yesterday about a SC case where they ruled that if LEO has suspicion to think drugs or evidence is being destroyed after a knock and announcement is made, the LEO has the "right" to enter the house without a warrant.

 

[sumoj275]

Looks like they won't need to get a warrant next time. Just knock and claim you "heard something" inside. First Indiana Supreme Court says cops can enter without cause and now the Supreme Court says you don't even need a warrant.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=13&articleid=20110517_13_A8_WASHIN747822

Listened to this yesterday as the SC made their ruling. I was just thinking about how this "applied" in this situation.

 

[jfssms]

The cops shooting him doesn't mean anything. What do you expect them to do? They just busted down the door to a sleeping man's home and see him with a gun. If I were in that position, I'd think "man, this guy is about to shoot me."

The real question is who sent them there, why, and was it worth it? The answers are the government (with our support), 1000 poor excuses, and no.

Doesn't have anything thing to d with the cops shooting a guy. If you're waging a "war" (what we called it until Obama said not to because it's "counterproductive to call it that"), people are going to get shot. You legally hire, train and send armed men to break into an armed man's house while he is sleeping, what the hell do you think is going to happen?

Why they shot him doesn't matter. Many of us might have shot him too. If I bust into your house tonight and see you with a gun...wouldn't I be correct in thinking you're about to shoot me? That's probably what the SWAT guys were thinking. Why were they there? Who sent them? Was it worth it?

Sure you can throw out "they don't have to do it" stuff. Yeah, you're right. But as long as we tell them it's the right thing to do, and pay them to do it...it's gonna get done. If the government had paid positions to go around sucker punching old women in public...people would fill the jobs. Sure, they shouldn't be punching old women...but shouldn't the government and we as a society not be irresponsible enough to want them to do it? Blaming the cops for things like this is starting at the wrong end of the chain. How many corrupt cops were in Miami circa the 1980's? Who was REALLY to blame for that? Correlation does not imply causation, but prohibition does. AMIRITE?

This is spot on....the truth and the bottom line.

 

[jrusling]

The cops shooting him doesn't mean anything. What do you expect them to do? They just busted down the door to a sleeping man's home and see him with a gun. If I were in that position, I'd think "man, this guy is about to shoot me."

The real question is who sent them there, why, and was it worth it? The answers are the government (with our support), 1000 poor excuses, and no.

Doesn't have anything thing to d with the cops shooting a guy. If you're waging a "war" (what we called it until Obama said not to because it's "counterproductive to call it that"), people are going to get shot. You legally hire, train and send armed men to break into an armed man's house while he is sleeping, what the hell do you think is going to happen?

Why they shot him doesn't matter. Many of us might have shot him too. If I bust into your house tonight and see you with a gun...wouldn't I be correct in thinking you're about to shoot me? That's probably what the SWAT guys were thinking. Why were they there? Who sent them? Was it worth it?

Sure you can throw out "they don't have to do it" stuff. Yeah, you're right. But as long as we tell them it's the right thing to do, and pay them to do it...it's gonna get done. If the government had paid positions to go around sucker punching old women in public...people would fill the jobs. Sure, they shouldn't be punching old women...but shouldn't the government and we as a society not be irresponsible enough to want them to do it? Blaming the cops for things like this is starting at the wrong end of the chain. How many corrupt cops were in Miami circa the 1980's? Who was REALLY to blame for that? Correlation does not imply causation, but prohibition does. AMIRITE?

That is the BIG PROBLEM with no knock warrants. If someone breaks into my house they will probably be looking down the barrel of a gun. Just yelling police or anything else does not mean that I am going to do anything. If they are in the proper uniform that would be a different story. With anyone else I will have to see a commission card or verify their identity with 911. There have been too many cases of someone impersonating a police officer. I just happened this past week in OKC. I know that if this ever happens I will probably be dead and I really hope that I never shoot anyone except a bad guy.

 

[onearmedman]

Are drugs and money justification?

What drugs and money were found in the victims home?

 

[benjamin-benjamin]

so did they ever explain why they had to wait over an hour without letting him get medical attention??

 

[redmax51]

When it comes to the success of the "War on Drugs", look how great alcohol prohibition worked...

Yeah and look at how well it worked when we "legalized" it.

 

[Norman]

so did they ever explain why they had to wait over an hour without letting him get medical attention??

I'm going to go out on a limb and say because he was DRT. 71 rounds fired, say worst case 20% hit ratio so that's 14 hits. If you take 14 hits from 55/62/75 grain 5.56 or even 124/147 grain 9mm from a sub gun to the chest/head at a distance of 7 yards and the odds are even Dr. House isn't going to save you. Those are the conservative numbers. That and the time it took to clear the house, secure the family etc, it was pretty much a sure thing he had already passed. He isn't going to be any less dead if the medics pronounce him in 7 minutes or 70 minutes.


Now who else is in favor of not MMQB'ing this thing until we actually know the facts of what happened?

 

[cjjtulsa]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say because he was DRT. 71 rounds fired, say worst case 20% hit ratio so that's 14 hits. If you take 14 hits from 55/62/75 grain 5.56 or even 124/147 grain 9mm from a sub gun to the chest/head at a distance of 7 yards and the odds are even Dr. House isn't going to save you. Those are the conservative numbers. That and the time it took to clear the house, secure the family etc, it was pretty much a sure thing he had already passed. He isn't going to be any less dead if the medics pronounce him in 7 minutes or 70 minutes.

Sometimes perception means everything - and in this case it looks really, really bad. 71 rounds fired (I mean, come on...), wounded man unattended to for over an hour? It takes an hour to clear a house and secure a woman and four year old? As I said - regardless of how you want to spin it - this looks bad. Real bad. And public perception here holds quite a lot of weight. Not that these guys or their bosses probably give a damn what the public thinks, unfortunately.

Wait until we "actually know the facts of what happened"? Will we, with them sealing the documents? Add that to the above, and this case just gets worse.

 

[spd67]

Sometimes perception means everything - and in this case it looks really, really bad. 71 rounds fired (I mean, come on...), wounded man unattended to for over an hour? It takes an hour to clear a house and secure a woman and four year old? As I said - regardless of how you want to spin it - this looks bad. Real bad. And public perception here holds quite a lot of weight. Not that these guys or their bosses probably give a damn what the public thinks, unfortunately.

Wait until we "actually know the facts of what happened"? Will we, with them sealing the documents? Add that to the above, and this case just gets worse.

Yes the facts will come out and the public will find out what truly happened. And as for you comment about those guys not caring what the public thought...they would not be there cleaning up the street if they didn't care about the public..."well they sealed the records they must be hiding something..." Thats conspiracy theorist bull crap. There are many very good reasons to seal records. Perhaps its an ongoing investigation and the records contain information that would endanger witnesses, informants, ext.... also it is common practice to seal records while an investigation is conducted into any possible wrongdoing.

I wonder if anyone here has even entertained the ideal that the cops shot a bad guy and were justified in doing so....Just because this guy was a Marine doesn't mean he cant be a drug dealing dirt sack.

"He didn't get medical attention for one hour".....He had 71 holes in him...the man was dead right there no medical attention warranted.

It seems like all OSA is becoming lately is a forum for people to bash cops and complain about laws and law enforcement practices.