Tattered flag confiscated by police in Henryetta

[berettaman]

If I were the business owner I'd file a police report for a stolen flag.

 

[SMS]

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...z4DoBQ&usg=AFQjCNGJzpirXQdDUtnNmHPuakp5ObJaWA

That's from United States Flag Code...it is not enforcable by agents of law enforcement on private citizens and property. I'm looking for the state law referenced by the Chief that he feels authorizes his officers to enter and seize private property. If such a law exists then so be it. If not, then he overstepped his authority and the situation would've been better settled by people voting with their wallets and putting pressure on the business owner.

 

[BadgeBunny]

Errrr ... I'm a little torn on this one too. No pun intended. I don't like seeing tattered flags flying but who is it for me to say if that flag has some significance to someone else.

 

[KOPBET]

I'm glad the Gestapo showed up and removed that business's flag. The flag only stands for liberty when we say it does.

 

[ronny]

If the flag had real significance for someone, why would they put it at risk by flying it in the Oklahoma wind?

 

[Mpdelaney]

I feel both sides of the issue as well... I replace my flag when it gets worn. But if I had a tattered flag that had sentimental value, and I chose to fly it for a special day of honor, well, you all know the saying... "Cold Dead Hands". My flag, my choice!

 

[kroberts2131]

There is a difference between flying a tattered flag day in and day out versus flying a tattered flag on a few select days each year. Being a Veteran, if I saw a flag that pretty beat up flying on Veterans Day, I would probably put 2+2 together and figure out why it was up there. The Navy is the only the branch that doesn't ruin flags everyday during combat exercises.

I started this thread (http://www.okshooters.com/showthread.php?100167-Another-Flag-Post) last year when the post office at 46th and Memorial in Tulsa wouldn't take down their flag. If you are going to fly it, fly it correctly.

 

[NINEROUND]

Maybe a better approach would have been to offer a replacement flag for the one the store had displayed. More of a trade. I salvaged a flag from New Orleans building that was in pretty bad shape during Hurricane Katrina. We promptly hoisted her up on the top of the HUMVEE and drove all around 9th ward with it. My fellow service members and I didn't see anything wrong with that.

 

[cmhbob]

It really bothers me when a homeowner or business owner leaves a tattered flag up. I've been known to call the business and offer to pick up the old flag for disposal by our Scout Troop.

That said, it would never occur to me to call the cops over it. That part just boggles the mind. The quote at the end is more than a little ironic:

we have soldiers fighting overseas and, to see the flag disrespected that way is a shame. In New York, they might get away with it. This is Oklahoma and we won't stand for it

Apparently this guy doesn't respect private property rights.

As far as OK Statutes, I found this at About.com:

A. Any person who shall contemptuously or maliciously tear down, burn, trample upon, mutilate, deface, defile, defy, treat with indignity, wantonly destroy, or cast contempt, either by word or act, upon any flag, standard, colors or ensign of the United States of America, shall be guilty of a felony.

B. The word "defile" as used in this section shall include public conduct which brings shame or disgrace upon any flag of the United States by its use for unpatriotic or profane purpose.

Hmm. Skimming United States vs. Eichman and Texas vs. Johnson, I'm going to go out on a limb and say the state law in unconstitutional. I wonder if Henryetta cops arrested anyone? And who would you charge? The business owner? The manager? The last person to raise the flag, who might not even work there any more?

Correction. The link from About.com does not have the current text. Here it is. Much of it seems like it would not pass constitutional muster. Reading Section 375, you could fly the flag of France over "Tax-supported property," but not the flag of Germany or Canada. Interesting.

§21‑371. Use in advertising prohibited.
Any person or persons, corporation or company, who shall use the flag or the coat of arms of the United States, or any pattern, imitation or representation thereof, either by printing thereon, or attaching thereto, any advertisement or device for the purpose of gain or profit, or as a trademark or label, shall be guilty of misdemeanor.
Laws 1919, c. 72, p. 113, § 1.
§21‑372. Mutilation, treating with indignity or destroying flag ‑ Definitions.
A. Any person who shall contemptuously or maliciously tear down, burn, trample upon, mutilate, deface, defile, defy, treat with indignity, wantonly destroy, or cast contempt, either by word or act, upon any flag, standard, colors or ensign of the United States of America, shall be guilty of a felony.
B. The word "defile" as used in this section shall include public conduct which brings shame or disgrace upon any flag of the United States by its use for unpatriotic or profane purpose.
C. The terms "flag", "standard", "colors", or "ensign" of the United States as used in this section shall include any picture, representation or part thereof which an average person would believe, upon seeing and without deliberation, to represent the flag, standard, colors or ensign of the United States of America.
Added by Laws 1919, c. 72, p. 113, § 2. Amended by Laws 1967, c. 298, § 1; Laws 1971, c. 1, § 1, emerg. eff. Feb. 17, 1971; Laws 1997, c. 133, § 176, eff. July 1, 1999.

NOTE: Laws 1998, 1st Ex.Sess., c. 2, § 23 amended the effective date of Laws 1997, c. 133, § 176 from July 1, 1998, to July 1, 1999.

§21‑373. Penalty for violation of Section 372.
Any person, corporation or company violating any provision of Section 372 of this title, upon conviction thereof, shall be punished by a fine not exceeding Three Thousand Dollars ($3,000.00), or by imprisonment for not more than three (3) years, or both, in the discretion of the court.
Added by Laws 1919, c. 72, p. 113, § 3. Amended by Laws 1967, c. 298, § 2, emerg. eff. May 9, 1967; Laws 1997, c. 133, § 177, eff. July 1, 1999; Laws 1999, 1st Ex.Sess., c. 5, § 94, eff. July 1, 1999.

NOTE: Laws 1998, 1st Ex.Sess., c. 2, § 23 amended the effective date of Laws 1997, c. 133, § 177 from July 1, 1998, to July 1, 1999.

§21‑374. Display of red flag or emblem of disloyalty or anarchy.
Any person in this state, who shall carry or cause to be carried, or publicly display any red flag or other emblem or banner, indicating disloyalty to the Government of the United States or a belief in anarchy or other political doctrines or beliefs, whose objects are either the disruption or destruction of organized government, or the defiance of the laws of the United States or of the State of Oklahoma, shall be deemed guilty of a felony, and upon conviction shall be punished by imprisonment in the Penitentiary of the State of Oklahoma for a term not exceeding ten (10) years, or by a fine not exceeding One Thousand Dollars ($1,000.00) or by both such imprisonment and fine.
Added by Laws 1919, c. 83, p. 133, § 1, emerg. eff. April 2, 1919. Amended by Laws 1997, c. 133, § 178, eff. July 1, 1999; Laws 1999, 1st Ex.Sess., c. 5, § 95, eff. July 1, 1999.

NOTE: Laws 1998, 1st Ex.Sess., c. 2, § 23 amended the effective date of Laws 1997, c. 133, § 178 from July 1, 1998, to July 1, 1999.

§21-375. Raising certain flags over tax-supported property prohibited - Penalty.
A. It shall be unlawful and constitute a misdemeanor for any person to place, hoist, raise or display any flag, standard, colors or ensign upon or over any publicly owned tax-supported property or premises except roads, streets, highways, stadiums or arenas in the State of Oklahoma, except:
1. The flag, standard, colors or ensign of the United States of America;
2. The flag of any nation formerly having dominion over the land now comprising the State of Oklahoma or any portion of said land;
3. The official flag of any of the fifty states of the United States;
4. An Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building commemorative flag;
5. The official flag of any municipality in this state;
6. The Boy Scouts of America flag;
7. The Girl Scouts United States of America flag;
8. The American Red Cross flag;
9. The American Ex-Prisoner of War flag;
10. The POW/MIA flag; and
11. Such other flags as may be approved by the governing board or agency having control over said public property.
B. Any person convicted of a violation of this section shall be punished by a fine of not less than Fifty Dollars ($50.00) nor more than Five Hundred Dollars ($500.00) or by imprisonment in the county jail for not less than thirty (30) days nor more than six (6) months, or by both such fine and imprisonment.
Added by Laws 1971, c. 79, § 1, emerg. eff. April 16, 1971. Amended by Laws 1987, c. 54, § 1, eff. Nov. 1, 1987; Laws 1996, c. 4, § 2, emerg. eff. March 12, 1996; Laws 2003, c. 107, § 1, eff. Nov. 1, 2003.

Interesting topic.

 

[SMS]

That's the only state statute I found that comes close...but it does not address someone simply flying a flag that is worn. Contempt and Malicious being key components. Maybe there is more to the story and the business in question was doing it in contempt.

Barring that, I'm missing where the Chief of police had the authority to send police officers onto private property to seize private property in this case...even as much as I revere our colors.