Israel dont mess around.
What I need is a $1,000,000. But, I don't have it. And Iraq hasn't had a strong Sunni leader since Saddam Hussein.
What we have to deal with is what we do have.
It's not about the numbers or the lobbying, it's about the overthrow of our system of government and our enslavement. Islam and sharia law are totally antithetical to constitutional government. Islam and sharia law brought us our first war as a nation.
Woody
Well said, and I would comment a little further, but that would take away from the topic of the thread. I will say, if we do or do not back Israel, which having the current guy in the Whitehouse, who knows. Either way, with or without our support, Israel will not be alone in this fight should it happen, which I believe it will, yes, according to God's word.
I just saw on the news where Israel and the US are meeting to discuss setting a "Red Line" date for dealing with Iran.
I believe that Israel is our ally and we should support them when they are threatened, and need to act, to protect themselves.
I also believe that someday Israel will stand alone to defend itself against all enemies.
Our current President just may be the one to turn his back, and let Israel fight on their own.
I believe that Israel is our ally and we should support them when they are threatened, and need to act, to protect themselves.
I also believe that someday Israel will stand alone to defend itself against all enemies.
Our current President just may be the one to turn his back, and let Israel fight on their own.
I don't have an issue with supporting their cause. I do have an issue with going to war for them. I'm not sure how anyone could make a plausible case for doing so...
I don't suggest going to war for them. I do, however, suggest that it might very well be in our best interest to go to war with them.
Assume we stay out and Israel goes to war with Iran. Although Israel has a far better military, their relative size makes them extremely vulnerable and it's not a forgone conclusion they would win.
So, further assume they lose. What then? This is the question which no one ever gets around to asking. What will a Middle East without Israel be like? What then will American interests in the region be? What then will the threat to America (and Europe) be?
There are many more questions that would have to be answered if we back away. Isolationism never works.
Assume we stay out and Israel goes to war with Iran. Although Israel has a far better military, their relative size makes them extremely vulnerable and it's not a forgone conclusion they would win.
So, further assume they lose. What then? This is the question which no one ever gets around to asking. What will a Middle East without Israel be like? What then will American interests in the region be? What then will the threat to America (and Europe) be?
There are many more questions that would have to be answered if we back away. Isolationism never works.
My comments in blue. You have to first realize that geographically, Israel holds very little strategic value in the region. Our allies Turkey, Saudi Arabia and Bahrain hold far more strategic value. The reason we don't have any relations with Iran is historical and dates back to pre- WWI. You have to understand the interplay between Reza Shah Pahlavi, his son Mohammad Reza Shah (whom we know in modern times as the Shah of Iran) and Mohammad Mossaddeq. The U.S. was essentially the puppetmaster, pulling the strings of the Shah between mid-1953 to the Iranian Revolution in 1979. Under the U.S. backed Shah, the SAVAK were brutal in their quelling of any political dissent. Internally, it was this resentment and hatred of the Shah that propagated virulent hatred and mistrust of the West, and the U.S. in particular. The current Iranian theocracy is a beast that's partially of our own making. We supported a brutal dictator because he would do our bidding and they hate us for it. Keep in mind that there's still a sizable segment of the Iranian populace that preferred the secular society created by Reza Shah Pahlavi in the first half of the 20th Century. These Iranians would welcome western intervention and benevolence on their behalf.
Now, take that and apply it to Israel. Israel can be brutal and heavy handed with the Palestinians. For the most part, the rest of the Islamic inhabitants of the Fertile Crescent consider the Palestinians as a lower class or caste. They don't want Palestinian refugees in their AOR any more than the Israelis do. However, because they're ruled and sometimes brutalized by Israel, the rest of them support the Palestinians in opposition to Israel. It's difficult to find on the internet, but their feudal system of conflicts goes something like this: Me against my brother. Me and my brother against my cousins. Me, my brother and my cousins against the tribe. And so on and so forth, culminating in Islam against the rest of the world. Keep in mind that this isn't an Islamic teaching, but a feudal system propagated by feudal societies that predate Mohammed and Islam. Everything that people normally associate with Islam in the middle east can be applied to the same people for thousands of years before Islam.
No single religious sect has a legitimate claim to soverign rule of the Holy Lands, regardless of what those sects claim. They've been fighting for 10,000 years and nothing we do will stop that. Hence my argument that we have no business fighting for them/with them/against them, etc.
Waiting for peace in that region is a long wait for a train don't come.
Where to start? I'll try to be brief.
If they lose? Iran does pretty much as they please. Syria, Lebanon and Iraq will be subservient to them. Jordan? Yeah, right. Serious possibilities of war then loom between that group and Turkey. There are dominoes stacked everywhere. And all this time we are just standing back whistling through the graveyard.
This region prior to WWII - was almost medieval. Lee-Enfields and Mausers were high tech not generally available to most of the region. Now, we're talking about all the petro-dollars they need to buy chemical and biological weapons, not to mention missles and nukes.
Wait a minute. There's nothing I can say to sway you. Your arguments are much the same as the ones against our entry into WWII. What threat could Germany possibly present to us? In fact, only some really bad decisions by Der Fueher kept the war from our doorsteps.
If they lose? Iran does pretty much as they please. Syria, Lebanon and Iraq will be subservient to them. Jordan? Yeah, right. Serious possibilities of war then loom between that group and Turkey. There are dominoes stacked everywhere. And all this time we are just standing back whistling through the graveyard.
This region prior to WWII - was almost medieval. Lee-Enfields and Mausers were high tech not generally available to most of the region. Now, we're talking about all the petro-dollars they need to buy chemical and biological weapons, not to mention missles and nukes.
Wait a minute. There's nothing I can say to sway you. Your arguments are much the same as the ones against our entry into WWII. What threat could Germany possibly present to us? In fact, only some really bad decisions by Der Fueher kept the war from our doorsteps.
I suppose I have vastly different views than most...when we go to war-we go in-- kick their a$$ and come home --let them sort it out---if they dont get it right---repeat phase 1---where is it written that we should have to rebuild anything at all---provide troops after the fact---support entire countries with our tax dollars while denying medical care to our own people--if they go back to the stone age maybe they will revisit their positions on "getting along" with other citizens of the world...bring all of our troops home...station them on the southern border (keeping all the payroll-all the money in our own economy)...the drug cartels are an invading force--they want war and Mexico cant or wont deal with it--let them have their war with the combined forces of the USA...see how they like that...
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