The Vetting - Holder 1995: We Must 'Brainwash' People on Guns

[Glocktogo]

Let's go over what has happened in this thread.

-Video of Holder talking is posted, outrage ensues

-I post saying that the speech was directed mainly at the topic of kids bringing guns to school, not gun ownership in general

-You say the audience isn't 100% children

-I say I never claimed that, and highlight the portion of his speech where he specifies that "especially young people" are who he's talking about

-You claim I've failed at debate 101 and that I have an "indefensible" position, then post a picture of a shark in a house

Is this how discussion usually pans out around here?

It is when you fail as hard and spectacularly as you have!

 

[Shadowrider]

No, but that's an impressive straw man. You're the one who claimed to know what causes school violence - apparently it's welfare.

I don't claim to know the cause of a problem as infinitely complex as why young people take weapons to school and slaughter their fellow classmates. But what I do know is that popular music, TV, and films all glorify gun violence as an easy way to solve problems. Being a gun rights advocate myself, I think an effort to marginalize or mitigate the glorification of gun violence in schools is a noble and worthwhile effort. The 2nd Amendment isn't helped by incidents like Columbine, and if Holder or anyone else initiates a program or speaks to kids about alternatives to violence in school, I think it's an absolute shame that people can't get behind that because they don't like him or his politics. I am not a fan of Tim Tebow but that doesn't mean I have to hate his charity work because I don't like the guy.

Okay I'll tell you, it's not rocket science. The cause of the problem is lack of respect for life and other peoples rights. It's the "it's all about me" mentality. Violence in film, music, etc. are just symptoms of the true problem, they are certainly not the cause.

 

[Antigonus]

Violence in film, music, etc. are just symptoms of the true problem, they are certainly not the cause.

While I don't disagree with what you're saying, I think it's strange to be against someone who is trying to combat a bad message, which is, "guns are an easy way to solve problems" or "it's ok to bring guns to school". Again, one doesn't have to agree with Eric Holder's politics to recognize that he was trying to do something good 18 years ago when this video was recorded. I don't think Holder can or should try to solve the issue of selfishness in modern society, but politicians do have the power to rally people behind certain causes, and I think this one (as opposed to his usual anti-gun message) is actually worth defending.

 

[Glocktogo]

While I don't disagree with what you're saying, I think it's strange to be against someone who is trying to combat a bad message, which is, "guns are an easy way to solve problems" or "it's ok to bring guns to school". Again, one doesn't have to agree with Eric Holder's politics to recognize that he was trying to do something good 18 years ago when this video was recorded. I don't think Holder can or should try to solve the issue of selfishness in modern society, but politicians do have the power to rally people behind certain causes, and I think this one (as opposed to his usual anti-gun message) is actually worth defending.

Yep. Too bad he didn't keep his personal politics out of the message.