The Vetting: Obama Has Demagogued Guns, from 2000 to Today

[dlbleak]

Byrd,

You need a history lesson. The "in god we trust" argument is a very weak argument, and your logic flawed.

If you could skip back a few hundred years, "in god we trust" wouldnt be on money or buildings. That didnt happen until the 1950's under Eisenhower.

I do understand the point your trying to get across, that our values have changed over the years. That the path were on will lead to the degrading of the U.S.

Theres a term for what your saying. Its called wussification of america. Societies evolve its a fact. Christian ideals evolve, conservative ideals evolve, liberal ideals evolve. Even the founders ideals evolved.

Generally speaking, you will either evolve or change with the times, or you wont.

Somewhere along the way youve got the Idea, that we have drasticly evolved or forced change down your throat. When in fact, its a natural progression your witnessing, during your lifetime.

So to answer your question as to whats wrong with America. Its that a few people, have to drag alot of people, who are kicking and screaming, along Americas journey forward.

there,fixed it for you. providing everything you need for sustaining your life,at a very comfortable level i might add, takes away you desire to want,to work and to better yourself. i know some will disagree but its human nature,psychology 101.

 

[Lurker66]

byrd, i agree with you 100%. WHY do we need to become europe? immigrants wanted to come here for the same reasons that made the USA great.i guess the progressives will solve the immigration problem without even trying!

Yes, they will, or it wont get done.

Or we can let ultra right wingers handle it, we could invade mexico, call them the 51st state problem solved. Or we could build a fence around the original 13 Colonies, problem solved.

 

[dlbleak]

Yes, they will, or it wont get done.

Or we can let ultra right wingers handle it, we could invade mexico, call them the 51st state problem solved. Or we could build a fence around the original 13 Colonies, problem solved.

finally, we are on the same page,j/k lurker! i still think we need stronger borders. i also believe that we need to make immigration easier in that it is WAY to expensive to do it legally. i have a friend who did it legally in 1986. it cost him $800 then. the current cost is 4-7 thousand. no wonder they come in illegally. it cost thousands just to get here and then they are expected to spend thousands more to be here legally? for the record, i'm all for LEGAL immigration. lets make it affordable and streamline the process.

 

[ByrdC130]

Byrd,

So to answer your question as to whats wrong with America. Its that a few people, have to drag alot of people, who are kicking and screaming, along Americas journey forward.

And I agree that America needs to keep going forward, I just disagree with some peoples definition and direction of forward. I listend to a speech by Richard Wolf, ( The New York Times Magazine has named him "America's most prominent Marxist economist." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_D._Wolff) entitled "Has America Outgrown Capitolism?" Of course he says yes, that the middle class are "wage slaves" to the owners of business'. Well it seems to be reasonable enuff that someone has to do the dirty work, the middle work and the upper leverl work. The difference is that this guy thinks the Gov ought to own the company and provide all us lil wage slaves all of our needs equally. We'll all feel apart of the big machine and we'll all be happy because we won't need to think for ourselvs, freeing up more time and energy to pursue more moralistic goals. This is an example of a fwd direction that I don't particularly care for. There are countries around the globe with the ideas that are being preached already, if someone likes those and thinks "Gee, I'd like to live under those circumstanses." Then fine, move to a country that has them. Let the folks that like the values and morals that the USA was founded on remain here to dwell in our own consertave stew and be backward. You see, to go along the lines of liberalism, you have a choice of many countries to choose from. But there is only one country that had freedom of choice as one of it's greatest assets, if you don't agree with it, please feel free to let us simpletons stay here in our conservative ignorant bliss and go to a more enlightend thinking eutopia somewhere where it's already established and become the shining becon to the universe! Don't change my country to become just like another country that doesn't work as well, please, that's all I'm asking.

 

[Lurker66]

finally, we are on the same page,j/k lurker! i still think we need stronger borders. i also believe that we need to make immigration easier in that it is WAY to expensive to do it legally. i have a friend who did it legally in 1986. it cost him $800 then. the current cost is 4-7 thousand. no wonder they come in illegally. it cost thousands just to get here and then they are expected to spend thousands more to be here legally? for the record, i'm all for LEGAL immigration. lets make it affordable and streamline the process.

At last some common ground, I agree. Now how can we find common ground on what to do with the millions of illegals already here? Maybe another thread so this ones not more hi-jacked than it already is.

 

[Lurker66]

And I agree that America needs to keep going forward, I just disagree with some peoples definition and direction of forward. I listend to a speech by Richard Wolf, ( The New York Times Magazine has named him "America's most prominent Marxist economist." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_D._Wolff) entitled "Has America Outgrown Capitolism?" Of course he says yes, that the middle class are "wage slaves" to the owners of business'. Well it seems to be reasonable enuff that someone has to do the dirty work, the middle work and the upper leverl work. The difference is that this guy thinks the Gov ought to own the company and provide all us lil wage slaves all of our needs equally. We'll all feel apart of the big machine and we'll all be happy because we won't need to think for ourselvs, freeing up more time and energy to pursue more moralistic goals. This is an example of a fwd direction that I don't particularly care for. There are countries around the globe with the ideas that are being preached already, if someone likes those and thinks "Gee, I'd like to live under those circumstanses." Then fine, move to a country that has them. Let the folks that like the values and morals that the USA was founded on remain here to dwell in our own consertave stew and be backward. You see, to go along the lines of liberalism, you have a choice of many countries to choose from. But there is only one country that had freedom of choice as one of it's greatest assets, if you don't agree with it, please feel free to let us simpletons stay here in our conservative ignorant bliss and go to a more enlightend thinking eutopia somewhere where it's already established and become the shining becon to the universe! Don't change my country to become just like another country that doesn't work as well, please, that's all I'm asking.

Im not a Wolfe fan either. You and I share alot of things in common that cannot be expressed in a few paragraphs. I think Liberals and conservatives agree we need to always move fwd, Liberal want to go fast, conservatives slow, moderates just want a steady pace and to avoid the inevitable bumps in the road.

 

[dlbleak]

At last some common ground, I agree. Now how can we find common ground on what to do with the millions of illegals already here? Maybe another thread so this ones not more hi-jacked than it already is.

you are right, i opologize to the OP.