Universal background checks can't be enforced?

[BReeves]

When reading the "POTUS Changes his mind on AWB" thread the thought came to me that a universal background check law would be unenforceable. Think about it, if you were going to sell a gun you bought say in the 70's to your neighbor would you run a background check? The gun isn't on anybody's books as it was bought before background checks were required and you know your neighbor. I just don't see how it could be enforceable.

 

[mugsy]

Speed limits are also unenforceable, as a practical matter, at most times and in most places - so law enforcement picks key locations. I suspect there will be a law change that mandates NICS checks for all Gun Show sales - a largely symbolic measure but it would allow the President's team to claim a victory. I hope they don't try to limit all private sales or require NICS for all private sales - just what we need another unenforceable symbolic law that simply turns law abiding citizens into criminals overnight.

 

[abajaj11]

When reading the "POTUS Changes his mind on AWB" thread the thought came to me that a universal background check law would be unenforceable. Think about it, if you were going to sell a gun you bought say in the 70's to your neighbor would you run a background check? The gun isn't on anybody's books as it was bought before background checks were required and you know your neighbor. I just don't see how it could be enforceable.

Exactly...so the DOJ will say to Congress " to enforce your law, we need to keep track of all guns ". Obama can then issue an Executive Order that calls for all folks to register their guns. Since this will be an EO that directly implements a law passed by Congress,
Bottom line: Universal Background checks MUST be stopped.

 

[mugsy]

Or the authors of such a law - could include language to the effect of "No part of this law shall be deemed to require, authorize, or allow gun registration of any type" - that type of clause is very common in laws.

 

[abajaj11]

Or the authors of such a law - could include language to the effect of "No part of this law shall be deemed to require, authorize, or allow gun registration of any type" - that type of clause is very common in laws.

Congress may try to contain the executive power with a statement like that. However, In order to execute the law they will have to track guns somehow. Instead of registration, they will call it "firearm safety background check " database or some such term.
Any law passed by Congress will be interpreted to take away gun rights, under the current POTUS. The last thing we want to do is give the current DOJ and POTUS any more power than they already have. Just my 2 cents.
Newtown was not our fault. we are the good guys...we practice gun safety and legal responsible ownership. Why should our rights be further restricted in any way...more than they already have been? We have 20,000+ laws on the books already. We have legal gun owners executing gymnastics when they go to school zones, in order to tread carefully on the side of the law. We have buildings that are "GUN FREE ZONES" killing zones...except the federal gun free zones are protected by armed guards, whereas our schools are defenseless.
If a law needs to be changed, it is to make our schools better equipped to handle threats.
WITHOUT another federal gun totin' school-guard bureaucracy...which is what they will push. Watch for it.

 

[BReeves]

If a law needs to be changed, it is to make our schools better equipped to handle threats.
WITHOUT another federal gun totin' school-guard bureaucracy...which is what they will push. Watch for it.

Another big government bureaucracy wouldn't surprise me one bit. Removing gun free zones simply makes too much sense for our head-in-the-sand elected officials to grasp.

 

[mons meg]

I still don't think an EO can "stretch" the law like that, especially considering gun registries are currently against Federal law, right?

 

[Dale00]

I still don't think an EO can "stretch" the law like that, especially considering gun registries are currently against Federal law, right?

Who would have thought that GM bondholders could have their property rights violated because the President said to do it? Put nothing past this administration and Dept of Justice.

I'd like to see someone more knowledgeable than me draft up some letters to our reps explaining why they need to totally oppose universal background checks. - And post them here of course.

Additionally, perhaps it would be a good idea to advocate for the elimination of the federal Gun-free Schools Zone Act in the same letter. We need to give the people responsible for the safety of our kids the option of having the tools needed to effectively do it. The federal government has in part created the problem of school shootings and needs to reverse course and stop meddling with the second amendment.

 

[abajaj11]

I still don't think an EO can "stretch" the law like that, especially considering gun registries are currently against Federal law, right?

The Congress cannot make a law and then depend on the good will of the people to obey it, while denying the Executive branch the power to execute it effectively. For example, they cannot say "pay taxes" and then hope everyone will pay them, while denying the IRS the ability to monitor who is paying taxes and who is not, and to punish people who are not paying taxes (breaking the law).

If Congress passes a law that ALL gun sales must involve a background check, and the BATFE is the executive body in charge of managing the execution of this law then Congress cannot also say..."oh, by the way you cannot monitor guns in the country and know who owns what. ". BATFE will say, rightfully "then your law is unenforceable".

Of course, no law is hundred percent followed, we know that....
but the Executive branch's powers derive from needing to effectively implement the laws passed by Congress. At the very least this involves being able to monitor if the law is being followed and when it is being broken. So if Congress passes a new law, it needs to increase the powers of the Executive branch so that they can monitor if the law is being obeyed, and pursue punitive action if it is not.

At present, NO guns are federally registered and BATFE has no idea who owns what (except for NFA class 3). In order to monitor if the universal BG check law is being implemented or not, they will need to know who owns what. Otherwise they simply cannot monitor it at all.
An executive Order issued by POTUS to this effect will likely be upheld if the universal BG check law is passed.
Of course they won't use the term "registration"...they will probably call it "federal firearms safety database" or some such crap.
Hope this clarifies seriousness of the issue somewhat.
If you are convinced this is a serious issue, please bring it up every time you see the work universal background checks mentioned in ANY forum or when talking to your reps / senators. The more people that know about this, the better.

 

[abajaj11]

I'd like to see someone more knowledgeable than me draft up some letters to our reps explaining why they need to totally oppose universal background checks. - And post them here of course.

Additionally, perhaps it would be a good idea to advocate for the elimination of the federal Gun-free Schools Zone Act in the same letter. We need to give the people responsible for the safety of our kids the option of having the tools needed to effectively do it. The federal government has in part created the problem of school shootings and needs to reverse course and stop meddling with the second amendment.

Well crafted letters work, but at this point, in my opinion, it's a numbers game. We ALL need to call once a week each and say something like "We will not stand to be scapegoated. No compromise on 2A. No universal background checks because BATFE will need to monitor all guns in order to enforce it, which is registration. I will work to defeat anyone who compromises on 2A, and work harder to re-elect those who do not. "
The time to win this is now. Not after some compromise law is passed.
We can win this together. Newtown was not our fault. We are the good guys. We prevent crimes. We own guns responsibly. 2A recognizes this natural freedom. we don't need to compromise....we already have 20,000+ laws restricting 2A.