Universal background checks can't be enforced?

[sixseven]

I posted this in another thread so I thought I would post it here:

I guess I'm one of the minority here, but I support the universal background check. It doesn't have to be so complicated as everyone is making it out. I have bought several guns from dealers and have heard the phone calls. The NICS check person only asks "handgun, shotgun or rifle". Yes, I know the exact firearm and serial number are recorded in the FFL's register. Why not institute the universal background check, but instead of focusing on the GUN, focus on the PERSON. You want to buy a gun from someone FTF, open up the NICS number to the public so they can call and simply find out if the PERSON is legally allowed to own it. No need to record serial numbers or any of that nonsense. Hell they could even make an iphone app for it. Alcohol used to be illegal, now when you buy it they check your ID to make sure you qualify to own it. They don't RECORD your ID, they don't RECORD what type of alcohol you're buying. Does anyone else see a problem with doing it this way or am I in the only one that sees no issue with it? I believe they should have a national database of firearms that have been reported STOLEN, which could also be as simple as an iphone app. No need to register all of the legally owned guns, number of guns you own or anything else. Hell there is really no reason to even to make a record of the seller's name. A simple yes or no if the person in question is legally allowed to own a firearm. We do basically the same thing everyday when someone writes us a check. Call the bank to verify funds. Do they ask your name? Nope. Do they ask what you're selling them? Nope. Just whether or not the person has enough money in their account to own your goods. If I can come up with this idea in 30 seconds, why hasn't anyone else?

 

[yukonjack]

How are they gonna track all these firearms? All those 4473's that we've filled out for years. They'll add 2500 new clerical positions to ATF to computerize all those records. If you think it can't be done then you're more naive then me. It'll be done by an Executive Order.

 

[abajaj11]

I posted this in another thread so I thought I would post it here:

I guess I'm one of the minority here, but I support the universal background check. It doesn't have to be so complicated as everyone is making it out. I have bought several guns from dealers and have heard the phone calls. The NICS check person only asks "handgun, shotgun or rifle". Yes, I know the exact firearm and serial number are recorded in the FFL's register. Why not institute the universal background check, but instead of focusing on the GUN, focus on the PERSON. You want to buy a gun from someone FTF, open up the NICS number to the public so they can call and simply find out if the PERSON is legally allowed to own it. No need to record serial numbers or any of that nonsense. Hell they could even make an iphone app for it. Alcohol used to be illegal, now when you buy it they check your ID to make sure you qualify to own it. They don't RECORD your ID, they don't RECORD what type of alcohol you're buying. Does anyone else see a problem with doing it this way or am I in the only one that sees no issue with it? I believe they should have a national database of firearms that have been reported STOLEN, which could also be as simple as an iphone app. No need to register all of the legally owned guns, number of guns you own or anything else. Hell there is really no reason to even to make a record of the seller's name. A simple yes or no if the person in question is legally allowed to own a firearm. We do basically the same thing everyday when someone writes us a check. Call the bank to verify funds. Do they ask your name? Nope. Do they ask what you're selling them? Nope. Just whether or not the person has enough money in their account to own your goods. If I can come up with this idea in 30 seconds, why hasn't anyone else?

Suppose you had 5 guns that you have owned for several years. You decide to sell one to your friend. You do it without a background check. How will the Feds ever know you sold it and to whom, if they never even knew you owned it?

The Congress cannot make a law and then depend on the good will of the people to obey it, while denying the Executive branch the power to execute it effectively. The Executive branch's powers derive from needing to effectively implement the laws passed by Congress. At the very least this involves being able to monitor if the law is being followed and when it is being broken. So if Congress passes a new law, it needs to increase the powers of the Executive branch so that they can monitor if the law is being obeyed, and pursue punitive action if it is not.

At present, NO guns are federally registered and BATFE has no idea who owns what (except for NFA class 3). In order to monitor if the universal BG check law is being implemented or not, they will need to know who owns what. Otherwise they simply cannot monitor it at all.
An executive Order issued by POTUS to this effect will likely be upheld if the universal BG check law is passed.

 

[abajaj11]

How are they gonna track all these firearms? All those 4473's that we've filled out for years. They'll add 2500 new clerical positions to ATF to computerize all those records. If you think it can't be done then you're more naive then me. It'll be done by an Executive Order.

Yes, but if you live in a free state like OK you could have sold that FTF to someone and not own it anymore. So while computerizing those records is a first step for them to create a national database, the holy grail is ALL guns in a database. For that COngress needs to mandate BG checks on ALL sales and then POTUS and DOJ are off running.....
After all guns are registered, that is when confiscation can really start.

 

[mons meg]

I wish them good luck. Even Canadians rebelled against their long gun registry and now they are or aer in the process of scrapping that boondoggle.

 

[Werewolf]

The Congress cannot make a law and then depend on the good will of the people to obey it, while denying the Executive branch the power to execute it effectively. For example, they cannot say "pay taxes" and then hope everyone will pay them, while denying the IRS the ability to monitor who is paying taxes and who is not, and to punish people who are not paying taxes (breaking the law).

Actually Congress can and does. There something that has to do with Class 3 weapons or maybe getting one's right to own firearms restored that BATFE is responsible for taking care of. But guess what Congress refuses to provide funds to BATFE so they can administer those things. BATFE doesn't complain and congress keeps not funding the programs.

People - the government can pretty much do what ever the hell it wants and the flip side of that is just as true.

 

[abajaj11]

IMHO, if Universal Background checks make it through the Senate, then we need to fight to keep them from passing in the House. I heard Sen Coburn this morning say he wants to hear what the libs have to offer.....hmmmm
If UBCs are passed, I really believe this Executive branch will view it as a license to institute a federal database of firearm ownership (registration).
Just my 2 cents.

Check out this thread if you haven't already read it to understand why this can happen:
https://www.okshooters.com/showthre...ole-quot-leads-to-registration-of-all-weapons

 

[WessonOil]

At some point, I'd imagine any firearm that goes to a gunsmith will require that the owner will have registered it, and gunsmiths will be required by law to see documentation.
Gun ranges will require that all weapons be checked in at the front desk or with a range saftey officer to check documentation.
Conceal carry guns will have to be registered, and your CCW permit will be specific to which firearms you may carry.
It may take a couple of generations for the government to have record of who owns every firearm, but it will eventually pretty much happen.

 

[abajaj11]

At some point, I'd imagine any firearm that goes to a gunsmith will require that the owner will have registered it, and gunsmiths will be required by law to see documentation.
Gun ranges will require that all weapons be checked in at the front desk or with a range saftey officer to check documentation.
Conceal carry guns will have to be registered, and your CCW permit will be specific to which firearms you may carry.
It may take a couple of generations for the government to have record of who owns every firearm, but it will eventually pretty much happen.

I sincerely hope that does not happen...because at that point, confiscation will start and within 2-3 years America will be effectively disarmed.

 

[WessonOil]

I sincerely hope that does not happen...because at that point, confiscation will start and within 2-3 years America will be effectively disarmed.

That's their plan.
In the same way that a newspaper was able to show a map indicating where all handgun owners lived in that city, the Government will be able to do the same with anyone owning any type of firearm throughout the U.S.

The few who slipped past the government won't be in large enough numbers to put up much opposition.

My guess is, the next time we have a terrorist attack on the U.S., an unfriendly admin will greatly boost the size of homeland security, widen their powers, and then give them the job of disarming Americans when they're bored.

After all they now have 1.4 billion rounds of ammo they need to use before it goes out of date.

Of course, armed Americans with those AR-15's and AK-47's that are "army guns only" will be labeled as terrorists first...we're already getting a taste of that now in much of the media.