Why are Oklahoma's roads so crappy?

[CHenry]

We could go round and round for eternity over who's fault it is. What isn't in dispute is that the current system is an abject failure. We have roads that are a national embarassment. While our challenges may be unique in some ways, in others they aren't. Nothing has ever been implemented to overcome those challenges.

Until the deficiency is corrected, allocating blame is irrelevant. All parties involved share the blame equally. If you aren't part of the problem, you haven't been part of the solution either. "TIO", isn't acceptable.

Fix the problem or continue to be a 2nd rate state. Education and infrastructure are the pillars of a successful community. We're failing.

It comes down to money. Period. TX has a little over twice the lane miles (State highways and interstate) than OK has (considering the land mass, think about that) but their population (read tax base) is 9 times larger. They have a huge amount of oil and gas money compared to us. The richer the state, the better their roads are...as a fundamental rule.
Also mentioned earlier was the soil type. OK has a very diverse soil composition from corner to corner so this is a constant challenge to deal with when it comes to a particular pavement design. Clay versus blow sand versus rock etc. We don't always get it right.
Weather was also mentioned. Freeze thaw cycles that happen almost daily in OK from Nov. to Feb. and is a real issue. Texas hardly freezes so no "cycle" of freeze thaw. KS freezes and stays that way longer periods of time so less "cycles".
The problem with the cycles, when a thaw occurs, water infiltrates the pavement (when ice or snow are present), when it refreezes that night it expands causing damage. This happens almost every 24 hours except a few days in Jan. that never thaws completely. I don't know what other states exactly deal with this but I would say its never an issue north of Ponca City, East of AR to the coast (south of KY) and most of the west. The western states are mostly either frozen or not in winter with a few exceptions.

 

[Junior Bonner]

This is one of the most informative threads I have ever read on OSA. Thanks, CHenry, I didn't know about any of this. This is all very interesting - please continue!

 

[Glocktogo]

It comes down to money. Period. TX has a little over twice the lane miles (State highways and interstate) than OK has (considering the land mass, think about that) but their population (read tax base) is 9 times larger. They have a huge amount of oil and gas money compared to us. The richer the state, the better their roads are...as a fundamental rule.
Also mentioned earlier was the soil type. OK has a very diverse soil composition from corner to corner so this is a constant challenge to deal with when it comes to a particular pavement design. Clay versus blow sand versus rock etc. We don't always get it right.
Weather was also mentioned. Freeze thaw cycles that happen almost daily in OK from Nov. to Feb. and is a real issue. Texas hardly freezes so no "cycle" of freeze thaw. KS freezes and stays that way longer periods of time so less "cycles".
The problem with the cycles, when a thaw occurs, water infiltrates the pavement (when ice or snow are present), when it refreezes that night it expands causing damage. This happens almost every 24 hours except a few days in Jan. that never thaws completely. I don't know what other states exactly deal with this but I would say its never an issue north of Ponca City, East of AR to the coast (south of KY) and most of the west. The western states are mostly either frozen or not in winter with a few exceptions.

By your line of reasoning, the answer is that Oklahoma has crappy roads and that's all we can ever have, due to a number of factors.

I keep hearing all the excuses, but never any solutions. Oklahoma has some of the most difficult tornado conditions in the entire United States. We also have some of the most dedicated professionals in the United States working on early storm prediction, shelter and recovery.

If Oklahoma has the worst conditions in the United States for building and maintaining roadways, then why don't we have the best and brightest in the field here in Oklahoma working on solutions? Can you point to a single road in Oklahoma that was designed, developed and implemented to resist these issues?

 

[1911Sooner]

The stretch of road on Morgan road between sw 29th and sw 59th is about the worst out there. You can't possibly dodge all the pot holes. Those of you that drive it know what I'm talking about. Seriously, someone is going to get hurt.

 

[CHenry]

By your line of reasoning, the answer is that Oklahoma has crappy roads and that's all we can ever have, due to a number of factors.

I keep hearing all the excuses, but never any solutions. Oklahoma has some of the most difficult tornado conditions in the entire United States. We also have some of the most dedicated professionals in the United States working on early storm prediction, shelter and recovery.

If Oklahoma has the worst conditions in the United States for building and maintaining roadways, then why don't we have the best and brightest in the field here in Oklahoma working on solutions? Can you point to a single road in Oklahoma that was designed, developed and implemented to resist these issues?

The title to this thread is Why are Oklahoma roads so crappy, not How can we improve our road. I never said we are stuck with this situation, I just stated some problems areas. We need to get rid of some highways but the COs don't want to maintain them either. So we need to find 9 times the money if we want roads like TX...fat chance right.
We are always striving to better our design. The high number of heavy trucks is also something they didnt foresee 40 years ago. today we design more for that as well. Most of I-40 from OKC to AR has been replaced with newer design and I expect it to be there in good condition for 30 years if not more. (thats all they design for with a concrete pavement). There is simply no way to avoid freeze thaw and its effects at this time other than keeping the cracks and joints sealed which is a night mare in itself with ODOTs skeleton crews.

 

[CHenry]

The stretch of road on Morgan road between sw 29th and sw 59th is about the worst out there. You can't possibly dodge all the pot holes. Those of you that drive it know what I'm talking about. Seriously, someone is going to get hurt.

Thats a city street, not a state highway. Different budget, different agency.

 

[tRidiot]

I think whatever County Commissioner is over the Piedmont area needs a kick in the nuts. Sara Road is the worst excuse for a real road I've ever driven.

 

[JD8]

This is one of the most informative threads I have ever read on OSA. Thanks, CHenry, I didn't know about any of this. This is all very interesting - please continue!

I was thinking the same. Thanks to CHenry and Ehlerdave..... got some objective insight from the other side.

 

[CHenry]

I think whatever County Commissioner is over the Piedmont area needs a kick in the nuts. Sara Road is the worst excuse for a real road I've ever driven.

That would be Canadian co.

 

[excat]

I think whatever County Commissioner is over the Piedmont area needs a kick in the nuts. Sara Road is the worst excuse for a real road I've ever driven.

Next time you are in OKC, drive Portland, from SW59th headed south to SW104th, you drive by the east side of the airport. 2 lane road that is pretty much a middle area only driving road, and you have to hope like hell you don't catch opposing traffic in the wrong spot or you are going to lose a tire. It's a pretty fun road to drive though, lol!