Why are Oklahoma's roads so crappy?

[snipes]

I drove from BA to Verdigris to Sand Springs to Muskogee yesterday and every road sucked horse ass cept for the Creek Turnpike.
I mean literally, EVERY road.

 

[Billybob]

And from what I've seen of the construction done on HWY 62 in SW OK, OK allows pavement to be put on a base that would sink into the mud in TN the first spring thaw, and relies on relatively dry and warm conditions (and hope) to get it to last 5 years. I watched the section west of the Red being paved when the base was so wet the trucks were pushing bow waves in the SAND.

Pouring concrete on a substandard base would be worse then asphalt. Germany built the autobahns on a 15" rock base, the US built the interstates on half that, and OK puts asphalt on 4" of sand sometimes.

You can do a lot more with really low labor cost...

Initially, the Autobahn project relied on the open labour market as a source of workers. Germany was at this time still recovering from the effects of the Great Depression and there was no shortage of available labour. As the economy recovered and the supply of labour became a more serious issue, the OT was able to draw on conscripted (i.e., compulsory) workers, from within Germany through the Reich Labour Service (Reichsarbeitsdienst, RAD) from 1935. As per the law of 26 June 1935, all male Germans between the ages of 18 and 25 were required to perform six months of state service.[4] In this period the work was compensated, at a rate slightly greater than that of unemployment support. The composition and working conditions of the labour force would change drastically for the worse over the course of the following ten years.[5

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organisation_Todt

 

[farmerbyron]

I worked in road construction for a while, I know why the roads fail. Look at it like this, the dirt compaction test fails, the VP of the company and the STATE inspector get in the VP's car and drive up and down the dirt road. Wallah the dirt has now just passed the failed compaction test.

Funny how that car could compact the roadway, but not the heavy equipment made for that purpose. I have witnessed this myself, not kidding at all. This may explain why our roads are in such bad shape all the time. Because when they break up the same company gets paid to fix them again. Each time they have an inspector on site to insure the work is done properly and passes all the required tests.

I believe it. If anyone is familiar with Tuttle, hwy 37 west of town had the two curves redone a year or so ago. They built freaking mountains out of sand for the curves. It kind of had one spot that would have flooded before but they went way overboard. Raised the road at least twice what would be necessary. Then, out of convenience they used pure a$$ sand to build on. Now I'm no engineer but sand is kind of a $hitty foundation in my estimation. Actually there are a lot of things about that project that are f'd up.

 

[birdhunter1980]

Agree 100% but Oklahoma has its own demons. They probably include everything already mentioned. We are our own worst enemy in this area. Corruption, poor standards, poor construction, not enough monitoring, etc. We need to clean up our own house too. Depending on big govt to fix things has its price. I prefer we clean up our own house first.

Kansas has a population of almost 1/2 ours, yet they seem to generate enough money to smoke us for quality roads.

The money's coming from okies going up and smoking there pheasant.

 

[CHenry]

I believe it. If anyone is familiar with Tuttle, hwy 37 west of town had the two curves redone a year or so ago. They built freaking mountains out of sand for the curves. It kind of had one spot that would have flooded before but they went way overboard. Raised the road at least twice what would be necessary. Then, out of convenience they used pure a$$ sand to build on. Now I'm no engineer but sand is kind of a $hitty foundation in my estimation. Actually there are a lot of things about that project that are f'd up.

Sand is an excellent foundation. All new houses are built on a sand base. For what its worth, I did the geometry for that new align. The elevation is based on hydraulic data and calculated to not overtop for a 50 year flood. Thank them that your road will likely never be under water.

 

[CHenry]

According to this PDF, ODOT is responsible for 30,000 lane miles of road. I'm having trouble finding a number for any of the surrounding states, but that'll get folks going, I suppose.

That sounds right. And the cost to maintain/rebuild those would knock your cost off.
It has nothing to do with elected officials. The director of ODOT reports straight to the governor and she hasn't a clue what ODOT is doing other than when its time for our portion of the budget. The commission makes all the decisions on awarding contracts. The employees do the best they can with what they have.

 

[crrcboatz]

The money's coming from okies going up and smoking there pheasant.

Hey Good!! I like that theory.

 

[Grendel]

I love Oklahoma. Born and raised here. Probably never live anywhere else. The problem is much worse than the roads. How many of our state run systems are in bad condition? Ultimately, it is our fault, because we continue to elect the people that are responsible for our problems.

This brings up a point that I have been thinking about lately...

We have known for many years, generations now really, that our schools are underfunded and underperforming. I think what we are seeing now is the effects of MULTIPLE generations of bad education. And we have no other choice but to elect incompetent people from a low quality pool of possible leaders, who will also appoint people from that same low quality pool, to all of the positions that are responsible for our infrastructure.

It's like making a photo copy of a low quality image, and then photocopying that copy...eventually we lose all semblance of what the picture is supposed to look like. We have parents, and now grandparents who were brought up in our crappy educational system and not only do we lack the skills or knowledge to do things the right way...but we don't even recognize that fact that they CAN be done better.

 

[Raoul Duke]

Sand is an excellent foundation.

Liquefaction not withstanding, huh?

Good thing we don't have to worry about earthquakes in Oklahoma... wait a minute, D'oh.

 

[dennishoddy]

That sounds right. And the cost to maintain/rebuild those would knock your cost off.
It has nothing to do with elected officials. The director of ODOT reports straight to the governor and she hasn't a clue what ODOT is doing other than when its time for our portion of the budget. The commission makes all the decisions on awarding contracts. The employees do the best they can with what they have.

Why does Oklahoma use the lowest grade of asphalt, and the smallest aggregate compared to our neighboring states?