Zimmermans Bond revoked..

[Glocktogo]

I agree about the race thing being a more logical argument. But noway will i post my opinions about the race thing. I would be banned.
I think some people suppose Z's guilt because the victim was black, others suppose Z's innocent because he defended his life against a person who happened to be black.
Either way Ive never heard of a neighborhood watch killing a person, in the line of duty or self defence.

BTW, i would never put such an enormous poster as you on my ignore list, I like reading your prolific opinions.
Especially, how if you were Zimmerman you would just sit in jail and save money. Magnificantly spoken from your backside. Lol

That post was slightly "tongue in cheek" so to speak. LOL

I still say Zimmerman is a magnificent imbecile. He may be other unsavory things as well, but none of those equate to 2nd Degree Murder. Nothing that's happened since the shooting has disuaded me of either of those opinions (and yes, they're just opinions).

As for the neighborhood watch thing, I could join a neighborhood watch for my HOA. I could carry on an SDA permit. I could follow any suspicious person and even challenge their presence and what they're doing. I could get attacked and defend myself, with lethal force if necessary. We have somewhat similar laws to what Florida has, just not word for word. Corey didn't charge Zimmerman with breaking a law against armed neighborhood watch volunteers after all. There may turn out to be a smoking gun bit of evidence that hasn't been reported yet. But, the affadavit and publicized evidence in no way support a 2nd Degree Murder charge.

 

[abajaj11]

dunno how a trained pro would handle it, but, im sure it would have turned out different.

Maybe you can be as bit more specific as to how you define a "trained professional"...It would certainly help your thought processes out as you evolve your thinking on this, (assuming you are not a plant or a troller and are actually interested in evolving on this).

Is it someone with a badge of some sort, like a security guard? or someone who has gone through some training? Or someone who just gets paid to carry a gun, without too much training?

Would you define for yourself (and us on the forum) what levels of training would qualify one to pass muster in your eyes as being able to defend their lives in a "trained" and "professional"way? For example, is it being exposed to some sort of realistic force-on-force training (open to civilians)? Or some kind of cleets training, most of which is also open to civilians? What exactly is a "trained professional" in your eyes?

And do you believe that a a "trained professional", if attacked as Zimmerman alleges he was, would have done something different...like let his head get bashed in a few more times before responding to deadly force with deadly force? Or tried to talk the attacker out of it while he was getting slammed and his gun was being grabbed (all alleged by Zimmerman)?

Or maybe done something magical to diffuse a situation which according to Zimmerman, could not have been diffused?

 

[jsl_pt]

Zimmerman wasn't even on neighborhood watch duty at the time from what I understand, though could be wrong, please correct if I am wrong, I thought he was leaving for the store when he noticed trayvon, therefore him being armed as a CCW is not related to him also being on neighborhood watch.

Also, 911 did not tell him not to get out of his car or follow, they said "we don't need you to do that" when asked if he was following. They never said don't do that, there is a difference when you dissect the language.

 

[hamiltoe]

Here's a couple of links to copies of the police reports and other evidence...interesting read...These files are big (80M each)

http://www.axiomamnesia.com/TrayvonMartinFiles/Trayvon-Martin-George-Zimmerman-FULL-case-report-documents.pdf

http://www.axiomamnesia.com/TrayvonMartinFiles/Trayvon_Martin_George_Zimmerman_Documents_given_to_the_Defendant_R.pdf

 

[Lurker66]

Maybe you can be as bit more specific as to how you define a "trained professional"...It would certainly help your thought processes out as you evolve your thinking on this, (assuming you are not a plant or a troller and are actually interested in evolving on this).

Is it someone with a badge of some sort, like a security guard? or someone who has gone through some training? Or someone who just gets paid to carry a gun, without too much training?

Would you define for yourself (and us on the forum) what levels of training would qualify one to pass muster in your eyes as being able to defend their lives in a "trained" and "professional"way? For example, is it being exposed to some sort of realistic force-on-force training (open to civilians)? Or some kind of cleets training, most of which is also open to civilians? What exactly is a "trained professional" in your eyes?

And do you believe that a a "trained professional", if attacked as Zimmerman alleges he was, would have done something different...like let his head get bashed in a few more times before responding to deadly force with deadly force? Or tried to talk the attacker out of it while he was getting slammed and his gun was being grabbed (all alleged by Zimmerman)?

Or maybe done something magical to diffuse a situation which according to Zimmerman, could not have been diffused?

i didnt bring trained professional into the thread, i was responding to the question in post 48.

I dont know how a trained professional would have handled that situation.

As for who qualifies as a professional or what training a professional has, i dont know.
I would argue however that most people when confronted by someone in a uniform or appears to be security or a police officer would submit to authority. I suspect most people do, maybe Martin would have if Z would have been in a uniform. I dont know.

What I do think is that if Martin was confronted by a police officer, he would be alive today.

I also think if a police officer was attacked by M, like Z alleges, it would never make Nat'l news. I think if a person attacks a LEO in your scenario, the LEO would be justifed using deadly force. No magic needed.

As for being a plant, yep you caught me. Im here to contaminate potential out of state jurors for the civil trial. I get paid a buck a thread to repeatedly state that Zimmerman, has been charged, will face a jury and be tried. The facts that matter will then come out.

I think he will be found guilty because he could have avoided the situation. I also think the HOA, will be sued, and if it is found that Z was acting on behalf of the HOA, then they too bear responcibility for Z's actions.

 

[Lurker66]

That post was slightly "tongue in cheek" so to speak. LOL

I still say Zimmerman is a magnificent imbecile. He may be other unsavory things as well, but none of those equate to 2nd Degree Murder. Nothing that's happened since the shooting has disuaded me of either of those opinions (and yes, they're just opinions).

As for the neighborhood watch thing, I could join a neighborhood watch for my HOA. I could carry on an SDA permit. I could follow any suspicious person and even challenge their presence and what they're doing. I could get attacked and defend myself, with lethal force if necessary. We have somewhat similar laws to what Florida has, just not word for word. Corey didn't charge Zimmerman with breaking a law against armed neighborhood watch volunteers after all. There may turn out to be a smoking gun bit of evidence that hasn't been reported yet. But, the affadavit and publicized evidence in no way support a 2nd Degree Murder charge.

JB, im not educated in affadavits and claim ignorance about evidence that supports any murder charge.

Really I look at what Zimmerman did like this. When carrying a firearm, as a citizen does with a permit, you should avoid situations where you might be forced into a deadly encounter. That gun is there to protect your life, its not there for you to put yourself into a situation where you can use deadly force. Which is what I think Z did.

Either way i cant wait for the trial, it ought to be interesting.

 

[David2012]

In Zimmerman's case there is a difference between following versus persuing a person. If you are following someone.. you can fall back and increase the distance between you and the person you are following.. keeping the person in sight. Whereas in persuing, you attempt to close the distance and overtake the person. At worse, Zimmerman was merely following Martin. Zimmerman didn't even consider the situation to be a emergency.. he didn't dial 911... he had dialed the non-emergency #.. he just wanted Martin checked out by the PD. I sure don't see any intent to confront Martin there.

Zimmerman was carrying concealed.. so until he was on his back and his jacket flailed open, Martin had no idea Zimmerman had a gun. From what I've heard Zimmerman say and what the witness said... I think Martin was a big young thug who fancied himself as a tuff guy.. and thought he could intimmidate a smaller Zimmerman. Martin confronted Zimmerman for following him, sucker punched him and was gonna give Zimmerman a good beat down, when the gun became exposed.. and Martin began to reach for it. That is when Zimmerman said he had no more time to wait for the police.. and grabbed his gun before Martin could... and shot Martin one time.

If Zimmerman had even the remotest bit of intent of threatening or shooting Martin... he never would have let Martin get close enough to sucker punch him. And why is it no one questions why Martin didn't just run home and tell his father that someone was following him? Martin could have called the police and reported Zimmerman.. heck, he had a cell phone in his hand. He could have hung-up on his girl friend and dialed 911.

I'd like to know where Martin's cell phone was when he was shot. Was it on the ground beside him.. or was it in his pocket. And where were the skittles & ice tea we all have heard about.. were they in his pocket or on the ground beside him? Hard to beat a guy down and hold a cell phone, skittles and ice tea all at the same time.