What is the state law on producing I.D. on demand from law enforcement

[Firpo]

Why should it be ok for someone that's supposed to serve and protect to draw down on you and make you in fear of your life? That's traumatic to the 99% of ppl that aren't committing crimes but because of someone deciding to call 911 it's automatic that they're guilty.

I disagree with much of what you’ve said although I believe I do understand what your point is here, I just think it’s an unreal expectation to have and here’s why. My Uncle Joe was pulled over and removed from his truck, guns drawn (many years ago). He followed their direction “to the T” and once they got him secured and everyone was safe they began questioning him and doing a little investigating. Come to find out he and his truck fit the description of a person that had just robbed a bank not 10 minutes earlier at gun-point. Once they figured out he wasn’t the suspect they apologized and left him on his way. I suppose he could have started running his mouth, acting all indignant and being an insufferable prick but then again the outcome would have been entirely different. He could have possibly been shot, tased or at a minimum brought to the ground with some significant authority. While unfortunate for my uncle he didn’t feel his rights violated in any way and completely understood their actions. So just how would you propose they have handled this situation better? Should they have simply walked up to a potentially armed suspect and politely introduced themselves asking Uncle Joe if he was enjoying his evening?? Of course not, that would be ridiculous. Police officers by an overwhelming majority do a great job, one most of us wouldn’t begin to try and deserve more than a little of our grace. If you want to be angry at anyone I’d suggest you direct your criticism and aggression toward the criminals that make their job necessary. You made the statement “Everyone says they're just doing their job” which is an exaggeration to be sure. Plenty of people here on OSA are NOT fans of law enforcement and certainly would disagree with this statement. I myself am a huge advocate of all our police agencies and have never excused out of control policing and think those bastards should be hung from the closest tree (metaphorically). I also would say that PD needs to do a much better job at screening out the bad apples and when caught they should be punished five fold what a citizen would receive. So here’s a question. What/how do you propose law enforcement agencies improve their policing strategies while maintaining their and the public’s safety? Instead of bitching about edited snippets seen on TV and YouTube offer up some real solutions, get involved and do something that will inspire genuine change. I really would enjoy reading your thoughts. Too much time is spent focusing on the negatives in life instead of acknowledging them and focusing on the solution.

 

[turkeyrun]

My HS buddy joined the city PD, after leaving the Navy. About 6 months on the force, a Saturday afternoon, he pulls into a 7-11. A Bandito was confronting another customer over some petty something.

He walks over to see what is happening and Bandito turns the wrath at him. The Bandito continued to escalate and when told ge was under arrest, threw a punch.
Bandito received a good beat down and was arrested.

In court, Judge asked about his face and lawyer stated "excessive force and police brutality". Judge gave cop (my buddy) a serious dressing down, released Bandito.
My buddy was considering quitting, but he had always wanted to be a cop.

2 weeks later, he and I go to the county fair. Walking across the parking lot, we hear a woman scream and sounds of a scuffle. Going over, we see the Bandito slapping the Judge and his Wife with blouse torn open.
Judge sees us and yells, "You're a cop, do something." My buddy says, "sir, you need to stop." Gets a "FU" in response.
My buddy calmly tells Bandito to stop, 3 times and gets same response. Judge yells, "do something." He tells Judge, " I don't want to violate his civil rights or use excessive force." Judge screams, "shoot this MF'er NOW."

My buddy jumps on Bandito, beats his ass good. Lying on the ground, handcuffed, Judge kicked him in the teeth.

What HAD been a LE hated, lib Judge became known as the hanging Judge, strong supporter of LE and dealt in maximum allowed sentences, based on looks, background and prior. The thugs with priors were begging for deals and giving up bigger fish.

 

[Shoot Summ]

Not saying its not a good idea to have ID on you, as you presented, but I do not believe its a law that you must have it anytime you are in public.

Operating a vehicle then yes of course you need a DL.

No where in my post did I say that you have to carry one, only that it absolutely makes sense to carry something that allows emergency responders to have some way to notify your next of kin. It's a free country, you can do what you want to do within the boundaries of the law. If you don't want to carry ID, then you have that freedom to do so.

 

[okietool]

I’m screwed. Sometimes I don’t know who I am other times I want to be someone else.

 

[1shott]

No where in my post did I say that you have to carry one, only that it absolutely makes sense to carry something that allows emergency responders to have some way to notify your next of kin. It's a free country, you can do what you want to do within the boundaries of the law. If you don't want to carry ID, then you have that freedom to do so.

You are correct, what you typed was "you need to"

I stated that there is no law requiring a person to have an ID on them when in public, but its not a bad idea to have one and that a ID or license is needed when operating a vehicle.

I think we agree on both areas.

Now back to my conspiracy theories,

 

[1shott]

I disagree with much of what you’ve said although I believe I do understand what your point is here, I just think it’s an unreal expectation to have and here’s why. My Uncle Joe was pulled over and removed from his truck, guns drawn (many years ago). He followed their direction “to the T” and once they got him secured and everyone was safe they began questioning him and doing a little investigating. Come to find out he and his truck fit the description of a person that had just robbed a bank not 10 minutes earlier at gun-point. Once they figured out he wasn’t the suspect they apologized and left him on his way. I suppose he could have started running his mouth, acting all indignant and being an insufferable prick but then again the outcome would have been entirely different. He could have possibly been shot, tased or at a minimum brought to the ground with some significant authority. While unfortunate for my uncle he didn’t feel his rights violated in any way and completely understood their actions. So just how would you propose they have handled this situation better? Should they have simply walked up to a potentially armed suspect and politely introduced themselves asking Uncle Joe if he was enjoying his evening?? Of course not, that would be ridiculous. Police officers by an overwhelming majority do a great job, one most of us wouldn’t begin to try and deserve more than a little of our grace. If you want to be angry at anyone I’d suggest you direct your criticism and aggression toward the criminals that make their job necessary. You made the statement “Everyone says they're just doing their job” which is an exaggeration to be sure. Plenty of people here on OSA are NOT fans of law enforcement and certainly would disagree with this statement. I myself am a huge advocate of all our police agencies and have never excused out of control policing and think those bastards should be hung from the closest tree (metaphorically). I also would say that PD needs to do a much better job at screening out the bad apples and when caught they should be punished five fold what a citizen would receive. So here’s a question. What/how do you propose law enforcement agencies improve their policing strategies while maintaining their and the public’s safety? Instead of bitching about edited snippets seen on TV and YouTube offer up some real solutions, get involved and do something that will inspire genuine change. I really would enjoy reading your thoughts. Too much time is spent focusing on the negatives in life instead of acknowledging them and focusing on the solution.

Did anyone verify that a bank had been actually been robbed?


Name of bank, location and PD that detained your uncle?

I know things like that have happened, so its not out of the question, but I still would have validated the events.

Just asking a few questions, its the track my mind takes in these postings.

 

[1shott]

My HS buddy joined the city PD, after leaving the Navy. About 6 months on the force, a Saturday afternoon, he pulls into a 7-11. A Bandito was confronting another customer over some petty something.

He walks over to see what is happening and Bandito turns the wrath at him. The Bandito continued to escalate and when told ge was under arrest, threw a punch.
Bandito received a good beat down and was arrested.

In court, Judge asked about his face and lawyer stated "excessive force and police brutality". Judge gave cop (my buddy) a serious dressing down, released Bandito.
My buddy was considering quitting, but he had always wanted to be a cop.

2 weeks later, he and I go to the county fair. Walking across the parking lot, we hear a woman scream and sounds of a scuffle. Going over, we see the Bandito slapping the Judge and his Wife with blouse torn open.
Judge sees us and yells, "You're a cop, do something." My buddy says, "sir, you need to stop." Gets a "FU" in response.
My buddy calmly tells Bandito to stop, 3 times and gets same response. Judge yells, "do something." He tells Judge, " I don't want to violate his civil rights or use excessive force." Judge screams, "shoot this MF'er NOW."

My buddy jumps on Bandito, beats his ass good. Lying on the ground, handcuffed, Judge kicked him in the teeth.

What HAD been a LE hated, lib Judge became known as the hanging Judge, strong supporter of LE and dealt in maximum allowed sentences, based on looks, background and prior. The thugs with priors were begging for deals and giving up bigger fish.

Name of buddy, and judge? Date and location on both events?

Convicting a person of a crime based upon evidence of that charge is what our court system is built upon, sentencing is to be followed by guidelines set by lawmakers, those we elect into office, not because of looks and priors.

 

[user 51785]

You're correct that it's my opinion and my opinion is based on their actions overall, and I say overall because the good ones stand back and comply with what the rest do, which in my opinion makes them no different than the ones of their "community" doing wrong. If Leo wants people to stop viewing them the way they do then they shouldn't reinforce their belief.

My handle on here for the uneducated, IT stands for Information Technology so im not sure what you're bashing was implying. I have been on ride alongs and have several friends and family in the Leo "community" as well as interacting with them to some degree, no I have not been in their shoes for the simple fact that I wouldn't take a career that involves me dictating and putting people in cages or Graves when they don't give me my way.

I have a common respect for Leo until they show me they don't deserve to be on that level just like any other person, when someone Leo or not makes it a point to intimate you at first interaction they're trying to assert dominance over someone not assess what's going on.

Why should it be ok for someone that's supposed to serve and protect to draw down on you and make you in fear of your life? That's traumatic to the 99% of ppl that aren't committing crimes but because of someone deciding to call 911 it's automatic that they're guilty.

That's not innocent until proven guilty, that's you're guilty until you can drum up enough evidence and make enough noise that we can't throw you in a cage.

says all i need to know and knew all along, you don't know anything, you just THINK you do. i ain't gonna say what that means because that should be obvious to everyone with a open mind.
in spite of the fact you never walked in their shoes, never got training (say you been on ride alongs but if that's true you musta been somewhere where they don't see no action or you rode with a lazy cop) you rely on what you see on the internet which is why i 'bashed' you. you think somebody in the job you are in would know better than to just believe whatever he sees on tv and the internet, you are proof that ain't true and that says a lot about you. instead of looking at everything you take a few cases and blow them way out of proportion. truth is your opinions have no facts to support them which makes them worthless. i might be just a blue collar guy who works his tail off and comes home sweaty and dirty and not have some IT job ( and I know what that is and a fair idea what you people do so you can stick your condescending comment where the sun don't shine) but at least i got common sense enough to know there's a big picture and what the internet and tv shows you ain't it. you sir are drinking the kool aid by the pitcher, too bad you ain't smart enough to see it or a big enough man to admit it.

 

[Bigdawg90]

My wife was telling me an interesting story told to here by a shopkeeper when in his store yesterday. He said he was out riding his bike the night before and was stopped by TPD for not having proper lighting on the bike. During the discussion he was asked for his ID and he told the officer he did not think he needed one when riding his bike. The officer then asked him for his name and his response was something like I'm within my rights not to have to tell you that. Being I was hearing this third hand so there may have been more to the exchange, but the end of the story was he was arrested and spent a night in lockup. That got me to wondering exactly what the law is.
Now in my personal opinion, this guy was an idiot for responding this way. I highly suspect he is the strong progressive type with little respect for law enforcement. Had it been me I would have respectfully informed the officer I was ignorant of the lighting laws for bicycles. When asked for ID I would have then said I'm sorry but I didn't think I would need to carry my wallet when riding my bike. I would have volunteered my name and address and asked the officer if he wished to follow me home I would produce my ID for him. I suspect at that point the officer would let him go on his way with a warning or at most a citation for improper lighting.
I don't understand confrontational attitudes when dealing with LEOs. Has it ever gone well where the officer said oh I'm so sorry. I didn't mean to bother you. I can see you are having a bad day so you can go about your business. Even if you are certain you are in the right, the time for that discussion is best saved for the next day with the shift supervisor. If he is unsympathetic to your complaint, you can contact a lawyer if you really want to press it that hard.

Many men would relinquish their freedom for the comfort of their home. It doesn’t make anyone more intelligent to obey a wrong authority. The opinion of comply today, challenge tomorrow is wrong. It is what has led us to the society we have.

Unless you are detained and the Officer has articulated such, you should have to hand over ID. If they ask for information all you are required to share is your name and date of birth. You have rights. What’s the point on having them if your plan is to simply comply and complain tomorrow?

I have challenged Officers and had them walk away. I won’t be intimidated into simple compliance. They have a certain level of authority that should be respected for what it is, but not more.

 

[turkeyrun]

Name of buddy, and judge? Date and location on both events?

Convicting a person of a crime based upon evidence of that charge is what our court system is built upon, sentencing is to be followed by guidelines set by lawmakers, those we elect into office, not because of looks and priors.

Over 40 years ago, Midland County
Judge would be pushing 100 yo, if still around. Could still be sitting if he was in Congress.